Help me decide about vaccines for my DD's

[mrsmalumbas]

Hi

Have two DD's aged 5 and 2, both born overseas so have followed different vaccine regime to UK. I also opted to give them both single measles vaccine not MMR, because that option was available in the country where we lived.

Now I need to bring them up to date with UK and have been advised by Dr's practise that they need MMR. I can't afford to go private for the single measles vaccine (100 pounds a pop!!) although I really don't think that at this age they need to be vaccinated against mumps or rubella. They also both need Meningitis C but I am okay with that.

However, I just googled vaccine risks of MMR and came up against the usual stories about legal claims, children with autism, bowel diseas, encephalitis etc. And the bigger risks seem to be with older children. Now I am unsure what to do.

Is it correct that the type of MMR vaccine in use now has changed since these legal cases were kicked off? Does anyone have any experience of having older children vaccinated - did they suffer any side effects?

I have made an appointment for my older DD to see the nurse during half term so if she has any reaction at least she can rest at home. I think she will freak at having an injection but that's not so much of a problem. I am just freaking at the thought of my lovely perfect healthy DD ending up with some horrible condition due to a vaccine. Of course I know measles is a horrible disease too.

Anyone got any (balanced) thoughts??

[Cazee]

[alipiggie]

Hi there. Both my ds's were born in the UK and I decided after much soul searching and research to go with the single vaccines as my mum offered to pay. I discussed all options with both my own gp and Direct Remedies who did the vaccinations. The recommendation made was for the booster MMR(V) to be given.

I now live in the USA and in February my then 5yr old DS had MMRV and had no side effects whatsoever. As he's already been at school since aged 3 he's been around children with all sorts of diseases/viruses so has a pretty good immune system.

And before this kicks off I do believe that we as parents should follow our own instincts and do what we believe is best for our children. I know herd immunisation is good, however, as a child I was vaccinated against everything yet still call measles and rubella although not badly. Oh and I had chicken pox.

[mrsmalumbas]

Hi - thanks - that's good to hear. Do you know if the booster MMR is less "potent" than the original MMR? I don't know if vaccines are measured in terms of potency but it sort of makes sense that the booster would be a milder dose..

[mosschops30]

Oh please you could put 'cabbage risks' into google and it would tell you its linked to cancer or other such nonsense!

If you want to research do it properly and make you decision accordingly

[gess]

Not sure what you mean by bigger risks with older children. Most MMR cases concern the first round, I do know of older children who have regressed- of course vaccine damage at 14 years of age (one I know of associated with MMR) is very noticeable.

[gess]

The booster is exactly the same as the original MMR- it's not really a booster as such.

The "worst" cases of regression have been associated with a particular brand which has been withdrawn now.

[mrsmalumbas]

Well mosschops that's helpful, not.

I do understand the principles of evidence based practise and use them all the time in my work. The trouble is the evidence is not clear and good quality research is hard to find. Also the reality is that even having hard information at your fingertips does not take away the emotional component of a decision like this. I realise that this is anecdotal, but really was just interested in people's experiences of having older children vaccinated.

[mrsmalumbas]

Thanks gess - the information I had read suggested that the older the children, the more severe the effects of any damage that did occur, rather than an increased risk of damage. Some of the court cases concern inflammatory bowel conditions such as chrohns - I have a very close friend whose daughter is chronically ill with chrohns disease and it truly is a terrible illness. My friend faces the very real possibility of losing her daughter to this disease, and her consultant at gt ormond street was aware of this potential link, although obviously did say that the evidence is unclear.

[macdoodle]

oh please the evidence is more than clear there is no link at all between MMR any any serious/chronc diseases - Andrew Wakefield who started the whole witch hunt based on a ridiculous trial has been struck of by the GMC I am with mosschops here - scaremongering and profiteering - will not say any more on this - though imagine how you feel if your child gets measles developes encaphilitis and goes blind/deaf - far more serious and likely than some imagined link to inflammatory bowel disease - hmm we must just be about due an outbreak due to lowered herd immunity!

[shonaspurtle]

Rubella will be more important when they get to childbearing age. My cousin is profoundly deaf because my aunt caught german measles while pregnant.

I don't know whether now that most children are vaccinated non-immunised children are less likely to be exposed when young. I'm pre-MMR and we were tested for rubella immunity at 14. Out of a year group of around 40 girls only 2 of us needed to be vaccinated.

[BarefootDancer]

Here is the NHS info on immunizations . This website contains a lot of information, including a lot of myths about MMR - good as a starting point for your research. You might like to get the other side of the story elsewhere.

[gess]

mrsmalambus there was a really recent thread on this with loads of info. Pour yourself a glass of wine and have a read of what were your reasons for not vaccinating your child? . There was lots on the MMR and lots of links (eg to Wakefields recent talk- he talks in that about brand specific effects iirc, and also risk factors).

Wakefield has not been struck of by the GMC (yet), and I think any witchunt has been aimed at him. I was utterly shocked this morning to discover that not only Wakefield is up against the GMC, but so is Simon Murch. If Simon Murch is struck off then there will be no-one capable of treating inflammatory bowel disease in severely autistic children in the UK. If you want to get up in arms about something get up in arms about that- it's a utter disgrace.

[gess]

mrsmalambus- yes crohns is known to be a risk, and many gastroenterologists will say that in private. You are also correct in saying that when damage occurs to an older child it can be very severe, it's also very obvious, so easier to link. As an example a friend;s child was in ICU following the MMR (and massive seizures). He is now severely autistic (non-verbal), but although the paeadiatrician has said he thinks that MMR was a factor it isn't noted as a vaccine reaction- because he was so young. It's much harder to ignore a catastrophic regression in an older child.

[sanae]

Even though I am medically qualified I found making the decision on MMR for my own children extremely difficult, to the extent that I delayed and kept getting the reminder letters from my own GP(very embarassing). For me the single vaccines were never an issue - MMR is far more extensively researched than any of the single vaccines, therefore how can you know that the single vaccines are any safer? Anyone who tells you that MMR is completely safe is not telling the truth because NOTHING in life is completely safe, ANY medication is capable of causing a side effect, including serious ones, and that would apply to the single vaccines too. HOWEVER, all my children did end up being vaccinated with MMR. They coped very well with it and I was very relieved once they'd had it done that they were protected as much as possible against these diseases. I found the Science Museum website useful - they have a section on MMR, though I am not certain how independent of the government this is (anyone else know?) but I thought the research was well presented and easily digestable. As far as the risk of a reaction, my gut instinct is that age is unlikely to be factor, more likely genetic make up/constitution would be the cause. In fact MMR is given to adults eg to women of childbearing age who are found to be susceptible to rubella.