B12 Deficiency. Your Health and Your Child's.

[beetwelve]

I'm linking to a recent video produced in the US about b12 deficiency. If you thought it was 'just a vitamin.' then I really think you need to watch it. In the UK our diagnostics and treatment are not actually as good as in the US. We also, since 2007 have supplemented foods with folate.
Please watch it. You need to (although some will think it is quite scary)

If you don't want to click on the link, either copy and paste or tap in Diagnosing and Treating B12 Deficiency in to Youtube, it should pick it up.

It was suggested by the Press Office at Mumsnet that I place this here (just to prove I'm not spamming you.)

Good Health to You and Yours!

[DoItToJulia]

As a veggie, I am very interested. Will watch at a more earthly hour.

Fwiw, my mum (also veggie) has just started taking b12 sublingually (sp?) as she thinks this is the best way to get it.

Thanks!

[beetwelve]

I think what even veggies forget, is that if they have got a b12 deficiency it doesn't necessarily mean that the deficiency is because of their diet. They could still have a malabsorption problem. Not that I'm saying don't supplement, but don't consider yourself 'treated' if you take a small amount.

I wish more people would read this thread because of the links to dementia, autism, MS, ME and many, many other conditions. This video could literally be a lifesaver for thousands because b12 deficiency is common, it is not rare, and you certainly don't need to have a restricted diet to suffer from it.

[MsInterpret]

Two members of my family need to have regular B12 injections. We can really tell when it's coming up time for another one. Neither are vegetarian. Worth a read, definitely.

[Lonecatwithkitten]

Pernicious anaemia - B12 deficiency is actually an inability to absorb B12 so the only solution regular B12 injections.
From developing that antibodies to the intrinsic factor that absorbs the B12 it takes 5 years for your body use up the stores in your liver, so it has a slow insidious onset making it difficult to know when there is a problem.
It does run in families if someone in your family has it you should get tested.
The injections really do make a difference and it is possible to do them yourself.

[lljkk]

It was suggested by the Press Office at Mumsnet that I place this here

Regardless I don't trust any post that is a first time ever post on MN, and that obviously carries a heavy agenda (evangelical). Plus the emotive text of "your children" like I would be a remiss mother if I didn't instantly embrace & share your worries. With my scientist background my instincts are to disbelieve every word.

[beetwelve]

There are a couple of things that differ in the US to the UK and also other countries.
Firstly, in the US they get cyanocobalamin jabs. In the UK we used to used cyano but stopped back in the 60s/70s because it has a short half life. We moved on to hydroxocobalamin and started giving it every 2 months. Then, a little later, a couple of small studies came out by GPs saying that patients didn't suffer detrimentally (they didn't do any trials or anything to substantiate this) if jabs were given every 3 months. This would save money because it saved on nurses' time. They also started reducing the jabs for MS patients as well at this point.
Secondly, in most other european countries they also use hydroxocobalamin - but they get their jabs every 4 weeks. Patients in the UK usually have to fight to get their injections increased and rarely succeed.

When it comes to symptoms, children are different to adults, and because in the younger age group their nervous system is still developing, the damage caused to it by a b12 deficiency, is very serious. Any neurological indication really should necessitate their b12 levels being checked. In the UK most doctors will only use the serum b12 test, but, as with adults the other more sensitive indicators should be performed.

Other symptoms in adults that are mentioned in the video can be:
Increased hair loss or thinning - either body or head.
Burning soles of the feet.
Difficulties in spelling (with words you would normally know)
Occasional difficulties in swallowing (a choking effect)
Some people have reported shin splints (pain in the shins for no apparent reason)
Back pain
Pain in the buttocks (very like sciatica)

I'll add to this as I keep remembering things (b12 deficiency - lousy memory!)

[beetwelve]

lljkk

I don't care whether you believe it or not. I'm not here to convince you, I'm here to pass on the information. The choice is yours whether you take on board the information or not. It's your life.
When it comes to you having a 'scientific background,' unless you can discuss the information evidentially, and I can, I don't believe you either.

[beetwelve]

Lonecatwithkitten.
No body knows if the entero hepatic system works in people with b12 malabsorption problems. In fact the evidence suggests that it doesn't. Hence some people may not store b12 at all and excrete all as excess. This is quite possibly why many people start to feel ill again shortly after having injections and need them a lot more regularly.

[Lonecatwithkitten]

I didn't mention hepatic storage after development of the disease only before to explain why the symptoms were so insidious. There is never an aim to replace hepatic storage only to meet on going needs.

[nightcat]

It's not all about diet/B supplements, it's about varied diet.

B12 and some other B vits are manufactured by bifido- bacteria in the gut, but these need meat in the diet to live on. Probiotics have them too, but they won't colonise the gut unless there is animal protein there too.

When my ds was vegeterian, I was told that he would need to take B vits and aminoacids for life, at that point I had to convince him back to eating meat,

[beetwelve]

No offence intended. And you are quite correct the development is insidious, which is why I nipped back in and added a few symptoms. These things seem like nothing, just minor irritants, but then it can develop into serious stuff in a short space of time. I look back now and I had different symptoms commence within a couple of weeks of having nitrous oxide. I would never have connected the two at the time.

[beetwelve]

Nightcat. This has got nothing to do with varied diet and the video clearly shows this. When I was finally diagnosed as b12 deficient, I had my own smallholding - I grew my own veg, milked my own goats, made my own cheese, bread, had my own eggs and bought much meat in from a local farmer. I was the one person on the planet who should never have got b12 deficiency. I later established that it was due to hypochlorhydria which is low stomach acid. For years I'd had trouble with IBS and lactose intolerance. Now I understand why. I just couldn't absorb the food I was taking in. Neither could I absorb b12.

[nightcat]

wow, nitrous oxide is used in the ready-whipped cream, never knew that!

[nightcat]

yep, my ds had hypochlorydia due to gluten intolerance, so he rejected meat as he had no stomach acid to digest it, it all got fixed when we removed gluten, confirmed by tests btw, both before and (years) after

[beetwelve]

You can actually increase stomach acid by using betaine hydrochloride (I don't do well on that) or lemon juice in water or apple cider vinegar.