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Moving abroad without child's father

(36 Posts)
Ax3l Sun 24-Mar-19 15:00:09

I'm looking for some advice. I'm planning to move Europe for a year with my daughter who will be 13 months at that point.
Her father and I aren't together (and never married) does anyone know what the rules are regarding this? He doesnt know yet but I'm guessing he's going to kick up a fuss just to be difficult. He'll be able to visit as and when he wants.
Has anyone done this in the past and have any tips? Also on the whole moving side, paper work... thank you.

OP’s posts: |
QueenEhlana Sun 24-Mar-19 15:02:04

You won't be allowed to without his permission I'm afraid. If you move, he can go to court and you will be ordered back, and you will risk losing your child and primary residency going to the father.

LuluBellaBlue Sun 24-Mar-19 15:02:45

How would you feel if the roles were reversed?
As a single mother who has been through this I would strongly urge you to do some serious thinking about whether it’s absolutely the best think for your child?

Amac18 Sun 24-Mar-19 15:04:07

Is all that's needed is written permission?
Or is there a form or...

Cherylshaw Sun 24-Mar-19 15:08:27

He's going to kick up a fuss just to be difficult?
Are you serious you are planning on moving his baby away to a different country!
How would you feel if it was reversed?
Legally you need his permission and rightly so!
And to say he can visit as and when he wants is hardly true is it?

junebirthdaygirl Sun 24-Mar-19 15:08:33

How can you think of taking a child away from her dad? Saying he can see her is very flippant. She is his dd and he needs to build a relationship with her.
My ds has a baby with a previous gf . Not only would he rarely see her but neither would l her GM or my other DC. We would be brokenhearted. My ds knows he can never move abroad now as he might have previously planned to. Having a baby changes your life forever.

Ax3l Sun 24-Mar-19 15:09:41

LuluBellaBlue.
Thanks for your concern however as multiple research has found moving abroad even for a short amount of time can significantly increase a child's well-being, social skills and development. And will still see her father as and when he wishes, just like now.

OP’s posts: |
Birdie6 Sun 24-Mar-19 15:10:54

www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad This explains it.

BaronessBomburst Sun 24-Mar-19 15:11:57

Are you going to pay his flights and hotel costs?

Ax3l Sun 24-Mar-19 15:14:27

Hi Cherylshawl and
junebirthdaygirl

She sees her father once a month, if that.
And it's the same distance from his house to where we are moving as it is my home now. And the flight is actually cheaper than his train travel now.

Thank you for your concern but you do not know anything about my child and her father's relationship. If moving would jeopardise it in anyway I would not of considered it.

OP’s posts: |
Ax3l Sun 24-Mar-19 15:16:43

No need for a hotel. And as said will be saving money on his flights as they're cheaper than his current rail fare.

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Ax3l Sun 24-Mar-19 15:17:48

@junebirthdaygirl

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TeacupDrama Sun 24-Mar-19 15:18:02

if you move away, if it is allowed you may well be expected to bring child back to UK at your expense to see her father not him even if you are just across the channel in NW France you can't see your child for 2-3 hours it is a whole weekend at best maybe once a month,
if the Father could not afford to travel to where you are it would be denying him access the court may order you to bring child back to the UK at least once a month, it depends how far from UK you are going
often even if a move is within UK the person who moves has to facilitate access like driving
if you were in Bristol you might get a prohibited steps order to stop someone taking child to Edinburgh never mind Paris
you really need to speak to the father because living elsewhere may be beneficial but it is not more beneficial than knowing your parents unless you are going to drip feed he is an axe murderer in prison

Cherylshaw Sun 24-Mar-19 15:18:26

@Ax3l
If that is the case then I would talk to the father and do what you can to move, if I was in your situation I would

Ax3l Sun 24-Mar-19 15:18:56

@Cherylsawl
Please see above.

OP’s posts: |
Lobsterquadrille2 Sun 24-Mar-19 15:20:40

My situation was similar yet different. DD's father and I moved overseas (island in N America) to work. Had DD (he wanted me to have a termination), he's on the birth certificate but never paid maintenance and saw her rarely (possibly once a month for an hour or so).

When she was nearly six, I decided to move back to the UK to have a support network. I don't think it occurred to either of us that he might object and he's had no contact since.
Oh except for one email when she was 20, asking if she wanted to meet up. She declined.

Doyoumind Sun 24-Mar-19 15:22:52

You've said he's going to kick up a fuss so you should know, as people have told you, that you can't do it. He can apply for a PSO of you tell him you're going to go and if you don't tell him you can be brought back. The only way you are going to be able to do it is with his permission. If he won't give it, you can't go.

HJWT Sun 24-Mar-19 15:25:59

@Ax3l my SIL did similar and she got written permission of her child DF as her solicitor said if he wanted to he could get an emergency court order to force SIL to bring his child back to the UK, it was kind of like a contract saying she would bring DD back once a month to visit and he could also visit and stay once a month at her hime and that it wouldn't be for any longer than a year...

JingsMahBucket Sun 24-Mar-19 15:28:14

Does it matter if he’s on the birth certificate or not? I’m asking because I don’t remember and don’t want to give the OP the wrong advice.

In any case, @Ax3l, if I were you I’d do everything to try to make it happen. Your daughter won’t benefit from a vaguely absentee father who only wants to manipulate her mother. smile

Doyoumind Sun 24-Mar-19 15:30:09

If he's not on the birth certificate, he can apply for PR. It's not insurmountable if he has concerns about her going. It would also be difficult to get him to pay maintenance if he doesn't want to whilst OP is abroad.

TournamentBattle Sun 24-Mar-19 16:07:20

* He doesnt know yet but I'm guessing he's going to kick up a fuss just to be difficult.*

Erm, so he SHOULD be difficult! He should absolutely fight for the right to keep her here. If he didn't I'd have less respect.

TournamentBattle Sun 24-Mar-19 16:09:47

And if you can't see the difference between the hours it takes to check in/faff of flying and hopping on a train then you probably need to try it each month yourself. Even if money is no object, convenience is. But it appears you aren't interested in that so book a free appointment with a family solicitor and get their advice.

TeacupDrama Sun 24-Mar-19 19:55:27

I'm guessing but say you are in London and Father is in Liverpool technically a flight from liverpool airport to PAris is quicker than train to LOndon however, if something happened you could just get from liverpool to London in 3-4 hours drive or whatever, however it could easily take 24 hours to get to Paris for example you might not get a flight until the next day it will be £250 plus as cheap flights are generally only available for planned trips booked well in advance and normally it is the midday flights tuesday-thursday that are cheap not the 8am and 6pm ones that make flying out on 6pm friday and back at 8am monday doable
also I think you have to accept all of the following before you move

1, you need her Father's permission and if refused you will have to convince a court that it is in DD's best interest to be in Europe because generally the courts would see a child's relationship with both parents as being more important than travel or cultural experiences even if one parent is a bit flaky

if her Father seems willing or even persuadable to give his permission are you prepared to go out of your way to ensure his access and put it in writing this may make it more likely that he will give permission

if he does not give permission are you
1. prepared to go to court or
2. willing to stay in the UK as you are or
3 Almost certainly if a court agreed to move you would have to agree to bring DD back to UK to see her father every month at your expense and to give a timeline when you expected to return to the UK and make sure skype facetime was readily available
4. if court refused permission would you give the Father RP so you could take the job for a year or would you give the job up

if you take DD without his permission if he says anything you will be forced to return DD to UK and he could gain permanent RP as you could be seen as a kidnap risk

if it is just for a year and you are willing to make regular trips make to UK ( this probably means using all your annual leave) and really try and sell it to him as just a year with lot of lovely visits he might agree

Ax3l Sun 24-Mar-19 21:01:19

I think I need to clarify a few things.
Firstly my question was about travel not relationships. So thank you to those who have answered without the snarky comments.

So you know and before anyone else wants to have a dig at me kid napping my child. my ex and I met while traveling with mutual friends, when we got back to the UK he moved in with me and shortly after found out we were expecting. A couple months after our DD was born he decided to move home and said that he 'didn't want to do the dad bit, he just wanted to live his best life while he was still young' and that's what he continues to do, "lads" holidays bimonthly and out every weekend and quite honestly we turned out to be and want complete opposites, the relationship only lasted that long because of DD.
In the nearly 8 months that we've been apart he's seen her a couple of hours 5 times, if he was "In the area" visiting friends or to keep his mum happy. (And before anyone says, I message her daily with updates as I think it's important that DD gets to know both sides of her family).

And him being difficult I don't mean because he'll want to fight for her to stay, I mean to get him to do anything (fill in forms) is next to impossible.

@TournamentBattle Thanks for assuming what I'm 'interested in' but I'll tell you what I'm actually 'interested in' and its what's best for my child, so taking a placement for a year with more money, less hours and an in office (english) crèche so that I can spend more time with my baby beats having to spend a big chunk of my salary for her to basically be raised by a child minder and only seeing her at bedtime.
And 'hopping on the train' he has to take two trains (three on sundays) one of which he has to physically check into. It takes twice as long as an airport check including the security check.

The comments about thinking seriously and about DD are ridiculous, I'm a mother. That's what I do all day every day. I've done my research into every aspect, how it will impact DD, the travel for us and him, money, accommodation, support, medical care...
I didn't consider the offer without doing the above first.

One last thing, before anyone mentions having time to go abroad on his days off, he does shift work, a week on a week off.

I hope this comment answers all of your questions and reminds some of you to think before you type. Unless you've been given all of the facts don't assume or point fingers.

OP’s posts: |
cranstonmanor Sun 24-Mar-19 21:05:39

Please read up on the Hague convention. I'm not sure if anyones good intentions count tbh. It can still become problematic.

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