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Further education

Generally, the what is the quality of advice given by schools for post sixteen?

16 replies

ReadingRiot · 20/06/2018 08:06

DS2 is in Yr 10 and has always wanted to be an engineer. At this stage he is less certain of what kind of engineer he wants to be.

He's doing very well in maths and science and I've always assumed the natural (best?) path for him would be A level maths and physics plus maybe computing then a degree (or degree apprenticeship)

He met with Connexions yesterday, and the careers service used by all schools locally (is it a national service? ) and they have very much steered him towards an engineering BTec course at the local trade college. The courses offered seem very narrow to me and are driven by what local employers want which is all good, but in his position it seems very early to specialise and narrow his options so much.

The written advice he's received doesn't even mention Alevels.

Is this OK and if not how do I change his mind? He's absolutely convinced the "experts" think he'd be best going to college or doing a level 3 apprenticeship through the college.

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Seeline · 20/06/2018 08:11

Any idea what grades he might be getting at GCSE for maths and physics in particular? Many places require at least a 7 to continue to A level. If that isn't likely, then their suggestions might be best. If he is more academic I would have thought A levels would be best - it would keep more options open.

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ReadingRiot · 20/06/2018 08:13

He's scoring 7s now and teachers say better than that if he does the work over the next year

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PestymcPestFace · 20/06/2018 08:19

Keeping options open is the best plan. With those grades A levels seem a good idea.

Has he any idea of what type of engineer? Have a trawl through UCAS and look at tempting courses and their entry requirements. This can guide his A level choice. Maths and physics are great, not all school computer courses are great. Any interest in geology?

Keep an eye on apprenticeships, there are some fantastic ones out there (and a fair few duds).

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ReadingRiot · 20/06/2018 08:56

Yes,I agree but he was already keen to leave school and now the experts have told him that's the best thing for him, and I fear changing his mind in going to be close to impossible.

I'm minded to complain about the poor quality advice tbh and ask the school to try again.

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weebarra · 20/06/2018 09:06

I'm a careers adviser (not in England) and I'd very much like to think that the careers professional will not have "told" him to do anything. I see my job as being about equipping people with the skills to make well informed career decisions. Maybe an apprenticeship or college would suit your son better than academic study at university? Maybe looking at courses with a year in industry would be useful?
Try www.myworldofwork.co.uk , Scottish based but useful in terms of investigating different sectors.

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ReadingRiot · 20/06/2018 09:15

You're right weebarra, I'm sure an interest in these courses was initially expressed by DS2 but they don't appear to have even suggested any alternatives.

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Whiskeysourpuss · 20/06/2018 09:15

I have to say that DD's school have offered no real advice about how she can progress & achieve her goals (Scotland based like weebarra).

I've had to sit down with her & go through her options & then contact the school to get them to sort out things she needs at their end no she's not doing the photography course you want her to do to fill a space because that's not going to help her become a midwife.

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PestymcPestFace · 20/06/2018 09:21

Wanting to leave his school is not rare for his age. Do you live somewhere where he can have a choice of 6th forms?

You don't have to make him change his mind, you have to make him research all possibilities and present a brilliant case for his choice. A careers adviser said so, is an awful case. Try presenting it to him as the careers adviser suggests researching B tecs as well as A levels, uni and apprenticeships.

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ReadingRiot · 20/06/2018 09:21

Yes Whiskey, I have the opposite situation with DS1 where he is an an A level course and probably shouldn't be, but the school were keen to have him on the course and I naively thought that meant he could pass. It looks like he'll be asked to leave before y13 starts so he doesn't sully their results but they had funding for him in yr12. Everyone has a vested interest
Sad

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PestymcPestFace · 20/06/2018 09:27

The whole 16-19 education system seems to be currently based around the institutions not going bust this year, rather than best outcome for the students. Luckily you seem to have sussed this Reading.

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jeanne16 · 21/06/2018 20:40

If he is getting 7s or higher, he should be doing A levels followed by an engineering degree or an apprenticeship. Not having A levels could affect him later on.

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TAmum123 · 21/06/2018 20:45

I have a ds in year 10 who also wants to be an engineer.... got similar advice. He has done some research and is aiming for an apprenticeship degree after A Levels - I didn’t rate the advice really but it has proved useful as he did the research himself and is now focused on getting the required grades!

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whiskeysourpuss · 22/06/2018 06:22

Not having A levels could affect him later on.

This!

Although the best route to the midwifery degree for DD is going through college first she still needs a minimum of a B pass in higher biology to get onto the degree irrespective of how well she does in the HNC level course.

So it's a long hard slog & she has 4 years until she's anywhere near applying for the degree but being slightly more mature & with some experience of further education under her belt won't do her any harm... but the school haven't even discussed the available options with her.

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Bekabeech · 23/06/2018 07:34

A BTec is not necessarily the best route for him. What he needs to do is talk to his teachers about his grades and if he would cope with A'levels in the key subjects (Maths and Physics). Also to take stock of what subjects he really is best at.

You can't rely just on School or Connexions.

If he wants to do Engineering then contact organisations like the IET and see what they suggest. Look at University courses and what qualifications they accept. Look at Apprenticeships too. Talk to local employers (national ones too if he knows what sort of Engineering he's interested in).

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NotARegularPenguin · 23/06/2018 07:42

I find the information patchy at best. Dd has been told some totally incorrect information. Her school said to her “don’t ask your parents for advice even if they’re University lecturers because they won’t onow the process”. Well oddly enough I’m a university lecturer and we do get involved in recruitment, we don’t just deliver lectures.

I’d have thought at your sons predicted gcse grades he should be looking at A levels. That’s not to say write off BTECs, it’s perfectly possible to do a decent btec and still go to uni if he wants to. But yes A levels is more standard.

Another option could be a decent apprenticeship scheme? Some of the large national companies like Siemens run really good apprenticeship schemes where academic qualifications as well as hands on training, etc is part of the programme. Part of me thinks if you can get a place in such a scheme maybe it is better than getting a degree and then joining possibly a lot of unemployed graduates? Dh is an engineer and says it’s tough out there employment wise, obviously will depend on the sector.

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somewhereovertherain · 23/06/2018 07:43

I’d get some proper advice. My Dd is wanting to do engineering and doing a levels may look at degree apprenticeship or degree. But the careers service is fucking hopeless in England.

Friends daughter who wants to go into a specific area of farming the careers advisors just didn’t get it and wanted her to do engineering.

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