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Can this be self employed?

(48 Posts)
barnacharmer Tue 13-Feb-18 17:51:38

If a company wants me to do 3 days a week admin work for them as a permanent arrangement, can this be described as self employed?

Bluelady Tue 13-Feb-18 17:58:47

No.

Sugarhunnyicedtea Tue 13-Feb-18 18:02:00

No

gillybeanz Tue 13-Feb-18 18:04:01

If you are registered as self employed already you can.
We have lots of people who hire our services on a pt contract.

barnacharmer Tue 13-Feb-18 18:23:03

That's what I thought. It's set days at set hours. Are they suggesting it so it's cheaper for them? Is it legal?

barnacharmer Tue 13-Feb-18 18:23:59

Thanks btw, my research had said it was dodgy but have never been self employed so wanted confirmation

user187656748 Tue 13-Feb-18 18:25:19

I'm an employment lawyer. Its unlikely to satisfy the test of self employment unless you have lots of other clients. Even then if it looks and smells like employment (albeit part time) HMRC are likely to say its employment.

Lucymek Tue 13-Feb-18 18:27:12

Is it a contract paid on a day rate ?

S0ph1a Tue 13-Feb-18 18:28:17

No.

Are you going to work for other companies as well?

Will they provide you with teh equipment to do your job ? Eg phone, laptop

If you are unwell , can you send someone else to do your work ?

barnacharmer Tue 13-Feb-18 18:28:19

Thank you. I need a job urgently and it's perfect in hours and that I can work from home but just seemed odd that they have specified self employed status

barnacharmer Tue 13-Feb-18 18:29:55

I can't send someone else if I'm ill, I'd be using my own laptop etc, it would be my only job

barnacharmer Tue 13-Feb-18 18:31:11

It's hourly paid. They said I would invoice them and they would transfer into my account. They're just trying to get out of paying my NI and pension costs, right?

Lucymek Tue 13-Feb-18 18:32:34

Don't mean to be cheeky but how much is it per hour.

You can do this however your role falls inside ir35 so you would need to pay your own NI and tax etc.

You would also need an accountant.

I do this however I'm outside of IR35 and I get a few hundred quid a day. Anything less than 20 quid an hour it's not worth it

Hoppinggreen Tue 13-Feb-18 18:34:23

You would have to register as self employed and pay tax if applicable and your own NI contributions
They are basically trying to deny you any legal rights you should be getting.
Sadly though if you don’t do it someone else probably will

MaverickSnoopy Tue 13-Feb-18 18:40:21

Is this one of those advertised on the likes of working mums?

I've seen these and they offer self employment but dictate set hours and days. It's not self employed, it should be employed if they're the only person you're working for (although it's a bit more complicated than that). There's a calculator online that you can use to ascertain whether it's employment or not.

I believe, but could be wrong, that as long as you pay the necessary tax and ni and register as self employed that you'll be ok though. They'll be the ones liable for not employing you.

barnacharmer Tue 13-Feb-18 18:41:25

Much less than £20 per hour which would be fine if I was employed but I figured the self employment bit would make it not worth it.

I'm trying to get out of teaching so even though I have the skills I don't have the experience on paper. Wanting part time work complicates it. If I was full time I would just take any admin temp work to sort my CV

barnacharmer Tue 13-Feb-18 18:43:29

I came across it on a Facebook discussion and messaged the woman advertising it. I have since googled the company to check if legit (it is) and found a proper job and for it.

chickenlegscarla Tue 13-Feb-18 18:44:11

No

Three days a week for the same employer in the same location needs to be PAYE. You'll have no employment rights (or holiday, sickness, maternity pay).

If they are paying you the going rate for admin you are also going to lose out as your hourly rate for a contractor should be more to make up for the above.

Sounds like a bit of a tin pot company.

barnacharmer Tue 13-Feb-18 18:44:34

*a proper job ad for it

Lucymek Tue 13-Feb-18 18:44:49

I wouldn't bother you would come out with barely anything.

Sorry. Hope something else comes up !

barnacharmer Tue 13-Feb-18 18:47:17

You're confirming what I thought. Maternity pay won't be an issue but holiday and sick pay are.

I suppose I was just hoping it would work out because I need something now and have no direct experience

chickenlegscarla Tue 13-Feb-18 19:52:45

Have they told you why they want the person to be self employed?

If not, ask them and say you're interested but would want to go on the books.

There are lots of employers out there doing this because it is cheaper for them but it really isn't in the employee's interest unless you are doing ad hoc for lots of different companies.

If you really need a job you could accept it but I'd recommend that you keep looking for something more suitable.

What is your long term plan? If you are a teacher you might find admin disappointing (think low pay, high workload, limited development opportunities, etc.).

barnacharmer Tue 13-Feb-18 20:01:32

They haven't said why. I'm supposed to be meeting my potential boss on Friday to discuss everything but am torn whether to just email tomorrow and say that the self-employment is a deal breaker for me. I knew it wasn't great when she said it but thought maybe it would be worth it for 6 months for my CV

Long term, I am looking at accounting and bookkeeping I'm doing AAT level 2 at the moment and would potentially go to level 4. I want something I can leave at the office. I currently tutor for a college and though my hourly rate is a lot higher it's ultimately zero hours and there is no way to book enough hours to make it any more financially rewarding than 3 days at minimum wage. There is no way I would work in a school again or do supply either. I like being busy, I like organising, I like details so accounting fits for me

chickenlegscarla Tue 13-Feb-18 21:28:11

Could always email and say that you are really interested in the job but concerned about the self employed thing as you're not sure that you should be self employed under the circumstances? Might not be the problem you think it is so worth asking.

Another thing to keep in mind with self employed is having to invoice them every month and then having to do your tax return. You'll probably find you will have to do this in your own time so your hourly rate will be even less.....

Could you not find something accounting/bookkeeping related?

chickenlegscarla Tue 13-Feb-18 21:31:12

Not sure where your sights are set but don't be fooled that you can leave accounting jobs at the office. I understand that teaching is hard at the moment but be aware that there is no such thing as the 9 to 5 for lots of office workers.

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