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IR35 changes

(10 Posts)
Ineverpromisedyouarosegarden Fri 25-Nov-16 10:10:22

Anybody affected by this? I don't think this will work well at all. Lots of people will be put through as IR35 when they aren't.

So very poor of the government to push this through when they haven't even got the online calculator ready.

bigredfireengine Fri 25-Nov-16 17:23:06

Which IR35 changes do you mean?

There have been a number with other proposed.

Hoppinggreen Sat 26-Nov-16 15:48:07

I haven't heard about anything specific, just that they are looking at it.

Ineverpromisedyouarosegarden Sat 26-Nov-16 20:20:36

Apparently in the detail of the Autumn statement but not announced. You can find it on contractors websites. To affect public sector contractors from April 2017.

By moving the responsibility to the employer so my fear is they will just lump you into IR35. So paying employee tax with no benefits.

Ineverpromisedyouarosegarden Sat 26-Nov-16 20:21:34

bigredfireengine Sat 26-Nov-16 23:08:12

I work outside IR35 (including on a government contract). My expenses are more than 2% of VAT inclusive my income (hard to see how they wouldn't be for a contractor)

I am not worried. I do flat rate VAT because it is easier. I actually got more VAT back overall when I did full VAT but it was a pain.

Seems a bit like smoke and mirrors to me. Sound good to the electorate but means nothing?

Badbadbunny Sun 27-Nov-16 13:10:00

IF the work being done and the way it's done is more akin to normal employment, then the tax/nic should be comparable. Far too many people "pretending" to be contractors who are really disguised employees.

Public sector has to take a hit because of the sheer number of "public" workers who have been taking the piss. From TV presenters like Fiona Bruce, etc., right down to doctors and nurses, all of which have looked like, acted like, and basically ARE employees. If they can get the new rules to work, then they can extend it down to non public employers.

The key difficulty is making it so that it doesn't affect the genuine self employed, i.e. true one-man businesses. That was IR35's original aim which failed miserably (as the govt and HMRC were told it wouldn't work).

If the new proposals for PS workers do come in next April, hopefully it will catch the disguised employees and put a much stronger burden of proof for those claiming to be self employed.

Ineverpromisedyouarosegarden Sun 27-Nov-16 13:25:44

Badbadbunny the problem I forsee is that the employer has to make the decision how to pay the contractor inside IR35 or outside IR35 if they get it wrong they will be liable for the difference. I can't see that they will take the risk.

In NI we have had a public sector recruitment freeze for some time. Most experienced people have taken the golden handshake early retirement and gone. Many large departments and projects are being almost run by contractors. Which clearly isn't good but them all deserting the ship in four months will grind the whole thing to a halt.

Many of them will be able to commute over the border for much higher rates.

Many of them are genuinely outside IR35 I agree probably not all but I can't see this as the answer.

bigredfireengine Sun 27-Nov-16 13:33:17

To add- I have had a full 2 year long IR35 investigation on the main government contract that I work on (or the last version of it) and came out deemed not to be working within IR35.

I wouldn't mind going on the books full time. I would get a good pension, long annual leave, flexible working and Flexi time and loads of other benefits. But I work on a variable contract and to have less people full time would limit their flexibility to deliver. They may need 50 people for 20 days each in October but only 2 for 5 days each in December for example. Contracting is an essential part of the public sector and they would struggle without it. That said I don't think that people should be allowed to work full time for just 1 employer and not be on the books. Typically I work for between 3 and 10 organisations a month.

0Marshall5 Thu 23-Mar-17 17:24:44

Are there any nurses who are affected by IR35 which will take effect from 6th of April and how are they coping with it?
Since l have got a full time job with the NHS. I have been given 2 options by the agency: PAYE or umbrella company.
Trying to find out the terms and conditions of these different companies is like trawling through a jungle. Any advice please?

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