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white poppys?

(140 Posts)
fluffles Thu 29-Oct-09 22:47:39

i like the idea of a white poppy for peace but i want to check - does the british legion or service soldiers find them offensive?

i would like to remember all victims of war and make a statement for peace but i don't want to offend the current or past forces.

can somebody let me know?

thanks.

p.s. see www.whitepoppy.org.uk/ for more info...

FiveGoMadonTheDanceFloor Thu 29-Oct-09 22:48:30

Don't

fluffles Thu 29-Oct-09 22:49:44

service soldiers???

sorry, that was supposed to be either serving soldiers or service personnel - came out as a combo of both!

jcscot Fri 30-Oct-09 09:11:20

Don't.

The red poppy does not glorify war or any other such claptrap - it merely reminds us of the sacrifice made by serving personnel.

AvrilH Fri 30-Oct-09 10:17:21

If you are worried, why not wear both red and white? I've seen that last year and liked the idea

scaryteacher Fri 30-Oct-09 13:41:34

Don't - the red poppy just recalls the poppies in Flanders where so many died in the Great War.

What makes you think the HM Forces don't want peace anyway? They don't glorify war - they know how unpleasant and inglorious it is.

Ewe Fri 30-Oct-09 13:53:24

I'm not in the services but I don't like white poppys. A poppy is about remembrance, not making a political statement.

ThisPhantomPlopsPumpkins Sat 31-Oct-09 18:51:18

What Ewe said... and everyone else who said don't.

hf128219 Sat 31-Oct-09 18:52:52

It's a red poppy - or none at all.

nighbynight Sat 31-Oct-09 19:02:55

The act of remembrance is used every year to legitimise war though (not glorify), by reminding us of those who died to protect our freedom,which somehow blurs with those who are risking their lives right now to protect American oil interests.
I dont wear red poppies any more. Have never worn a white one either.

Ronaldinhio Sat 31-Oct-09 19:06:18

This is a bloody rubbish idea imho

hf128219 Sat 31-Oct-09 19:36:31

nighbypnight - what a very uneducated view.

dizietsma Sat 31-Oct-09 19:50:28

I like white poppies, and wear one. I too think red poppies are part of the glorification and legitimisation of war. I can support charities for ex-servicemen and women without wearing a symbol that reveres war.

Also, if I were someone from the forces I would find it insulting that the fund is named after the incompetent General "Butcher of the Somme" Haig responsible for so many needless deaths. Explain what is so "uneducated" about that please?

hf128219 Sat 31-Oct-09 19:56:45

I was making reference to American Oil Interests by nilbymouth.

nighbynight Sat 31-Oct-09 20:00:52

Hurling insults is a sign of being uneducated, I would say, as is mangling peoples's names.

undervalued Sat 31-Oct-09 20:09:15

Uneducated because it is a one sided opinion and this topic is not about opinion.
Poppies are about the loss of life during the Great War (and subsequent others). To say it is part of the glorification and legitimisation of war or anything to do with Haige is uneducated in that you are saying that they died for nothing - that their deaths were a waste. I'm sure their families would thank you for that. Who cares about your opinion of war - this is about men who have made the ultimate sacrifice for their country - real men, with families who believe their son/father/uncle/grandad has done something noble - and are allowed to grieve with pride and honour - not needing whinging gits, with no experience,spouting about their poxy beliefs.

hf128219 Sat 31-Oct-09 20:13:22

Oh goodness me. I am entitled to get pissed of with generalisations/personal opinions.

Wear a red poppy for the reason it is meant to be worn - if you wish.

If you don't - don't wear one.

Kayran Sat 31-Oct-09 20:14:50

Well I am afraid I do think it is a simplistic argument to suggest that wearing a red poopy glorifies war.

General Haig did lose more men than perhaps was necessary to acheive the objective, but it is absoloutely certain that whoever had been in charge WWI would have seen human carnage on a scale unimaginable to us. History has been a harsh judge and it is only now when some of the documentation is finally being released after being held subject to the official secrets act that Haig can truly be analysed. And in present day terms his reputation is being restored - at least amongst historical scholars.

As to the poppy glorifying war - the poppy as a symbol of human sacrifice has been with us for eons, certainly documented since the time of the Napleonic war.

The present day popularity of the poppy as a symbol of rememberance was stirred by the WWI poem 'In Flanders Field.'

A response that was made by an american poet sums up why the wearing of the poppy does nothing to glorify war and indeed seeks to remember the sacrifice of young lives and to try and ensure those memories mean that we honour their sacrifice by living in peace.

Fear not that ye have died for naught.
The torch ye threw to us we caught.
Ten million hands will hold it high,
And Freedom’s light shall never die!
We’ve learned the lesson that ye taught
In Flanders’ fields.

Of course you could argue that we have not learnt the lessons of Flanders Field and in that case we are now in more dire need of of the true symbolic meaning of the poppy than ever before. I wear mine with pride.

Kayran Sat 31-Oct-09 20:15:48

Or even wearing a red 'poppy' blush

nighbynight Sat 31-Oct-09 20:17:34

Yes, opinions do tend to be one-sided. That's just a long-winded way of saying that you don't agree.

Look at the next remembrance day, you'll see small allusions to recent conflicts that are NOT about defending our country. You cannot pretend that these don't exist.
By mixing these in with the story of people who did die to defend their country, the government is legitimising all their wars. There is nothing uneducated about understanding that. But it sounds good to throw the word around, doesn't it.

hf128219 Sat 31-Oct-09 20:20:58

So you don't view Al Qaeda as a threat to the West?

ThePhantomPlotter Sat 31-Oct-09 20:23:31

Urm. We are still defending our country! Afghanistan is very real war, that needs to be won.

ThePhantomPlotter Sat 31-Oct-09 20:24:22

x posts. Can't type quickly when eating a bowl of cornflakes!

Kayran Sat 31-Oct-09 20:25:30

British Forces are not autonomous.

British Forces choose to serve their country.

Their country democratically elects a Government.

That Government is given the power to make unilateral decisions about the deployment of our Forces.

The Forces go, they die and get maimed, they serve their country.

Their country should honour their sacrifice.

Their country do not agree with what the Government did in their name.

The country elect a different Governemnt.

nighbynight Sat 31-Oct-09 20:26:18

Re teh poppy glamourising war: I think that when you stir people's emotions, you are pulling them away from logical thought. The government certainly uses poppy day to push the legend of the heroic soldier. Once our emotions have been stirred in this direction, it becomes impossible to criticise what the heroic soldier is doing today. In other words, it becomes harder to criticise the government, because by doing so we are "undermining the morale" of the heroic soldiers.

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