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Is marg and vegetable oils ......

(163 Posts)
wildirishrose Sun 13-Jan-13 08:28:48

Bad for you?

TepidCoffee Sun 13-Jan-13 10:27:00

Yep, you can also get ghee in the 'ethnic' aisle in supermarkets, where it's not expensive at all.

Agree that coconut oil is expensive, though. They sometimes have it reduced in H&B, although you need to keep an eye on the use by dates there.

wildirishrose Sun 13-Jan-13 10:27:21

Just found this....

In 1911, a few years after Sinclair's sensational revelations, Crisco was introduced and touted as a healthy alternative. Crisco, like margarine, is a vegetable fat turned into a solid form at room temperature by the process of hydrogenation. This method also creates trans-fatty acids, which we now know increase total cholesterol, raise LDL ("bad") cholesterol and lower HDL ("good") cholesterol. These unnatural compounds may also have adverse effects on cell membranes and the immune system, and may promote inflammation, cancer and accelerated aging.

After World War II, consumption of lard along with other animal fats dropped even more thanks to the conventional wisdom of the past 40 years that the saturated fats in our diets were a principal cause of high cholesterol and rising rates of heart disease. More recent research suggests that this isn't so - a scientific analysis of 21 studies determined that there is no significant evidence that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of coronary artery disease.

I doubt that the scientific rethinking of the contribution of saturated fat to heart disease is responsible for lard's re-emergence as an acceptable cooking fat. That is probably due more to the influence of the well-known chefs who have been using it in their restaurants, as well as to recent efforts to preserve dwindling heirloom breeds of pigs and raise them sustainably.

Nutritionally speaking, lard has nearly one-fourth the saturated fat and more than twice the monounsaturated fat as butter. It is also low in omega-6 fatty acids, known to promote inflammation; according to lard enthusiasts free-range pigs that eat greens, not grains, have higher levels of omega-3 fatty acids.

Lard has always been prized as a cooking fat because it has a higher smoking point than other fats. For that reason, foods fried in lard absorb less grease. It also has the reputation of producing ultra-flaky pastry crust.

Cans of lard are available in supermarkets, but most of these products have been hydrogenated so they'll last longer and are probably not what you want. The best lard is considered to be minimally processed "leaf lard" from the area around the pig's abdomen and kidneys or fatback lard from the pig's back. You can get these at high-end specialty markets or online.

AKissIsNotAContract Sun 13-Jan-13 10:34:00

Lamazaroo: hope you don't mind me asking but is a nutritionist the same as a dietician? Do you have the same qualifications?

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Sun 13-Jan-13 10:34:09

I've been reading a book recently which basically says if it comes from an animal or plant naturally it's good for you, if it has to be processed in any way then it is not. So oranges = good, cartons of orange juice = bad, and therefore butter good, spreads/marg = bad.

Interestingly, on the cholesterol point raised above, the book says our bodies naturally produce cholesterol of their own accord, therefore it must be something we need. Our bodies wouldn't try to poison us!

I've only just started reading the book but it makes a lot of sense so far.

Virgil Sun 13-Jan-13 10:36:41

So then a normal (and cheap!!) packet of lard from the chiller cabinet next to the butter is a decent alternative to expensive coconut oil for frying, roasting potatoes etc? Better for you than sunflower oil.

At the moment I'm confused so have just been using e.v. Olive oil or butter for everything

Virgil Sun 13-Jan-13 10:37:18

Why are cartons of orange juice bad?

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Sun 13-Jan-13 10:39:19

Because the juice has often been processed, ie pasteurised, extra sugar added, concentrated then reconstituted, etc.

mutantninjamyrtle Sun 13-Jan-13 10:47:35

I've had the same advice from a nutritionist, though was also advised to minimise fruit consumption owing to the sugar content. If you are keeping starch to a minimum and eating good protein, vegetables and fats then you will feel full earlier and for longer, despite stuffing down the butter. It does really work...

UnderwaterBasketWeaving Sun 13-Jan-13 10:51:34

just to be annoying, Frankelly:

So, butter is good because it's not processed? So it comes out of cows like that, does it?! Because in 2 years of BFing I've never produced butter (that I know of!).

I reckon there probably is some kind of processing going on.

Please beware of such simplistic pseudoscience, people.

Eat a balanced diet, sleep well and move a bit and you'll be right. If you read enough, you'll find even oxygen will give you cancer.

Oh, and to add my own bit of bollocks: Bio yoghurt is the bestest, New Scientist said so!

Narked Sun 13-Jan-13 10:53:10

Nutritionist isn't the legally protected term. Dietician is. Having said that, it doesn't change the fact that the advice is sound. Processed food isn't great for your health.

UnderwaterBasketWeaving Sun 13-Jan-13 10:53:27

grin <- to indicate good humour and no personal attack intended.

QuickLookBusy Sun 13-Jan-13 11:02:20

There was a good programme on channel 5 last night. Something like "50 greatest diet and execise myths"

It did say processed marg was very bad for you. It's to do with the heat process used to "change" the veg oil. It's not good for us at all.

EyesCrossedLegsAkimbo Sun 13-Jan-13 11:06:19

I use rice bran oil to cook with. It has no cholesterol but contains plant sterols and vitamin E. It also has a high smoke point. So is it good or bad?

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Sun 13-Jan-13 11:07:17

Not offended Underwater grin, like I said I've only just started reading the book, I may get further in think "this is a load of old woo!" And chuck it in the bin grin

I did think the same thing about the butter though wink

Orenishii Sun 13-Jan-13 11:07:24

Completely agree with Tepid and Lamazeroo - we need good quality fats such as quality butter, coconut oil/butter and olive oil - and very impressed it's been pointed out that OO turns bad at high temperatures!

Somewhere along the line, we've been sold the idea that low fat diets are best for us - and you know, clearly it's not working!

Thumbwitch Sun 13-Jan-13 11:31:54

All you need to produce butter from milk cream is churning. It does it all itself, nothing added, nothing taken away (except you can add salt). So it is "processed", in that it is churned - but not altered chemically or by heat. You can make your own butter if you've the energy smile
Bet you can't make your own vegetable oil spread though.

Whathaveiforgottentoday Sun 13-Jan-13 11:46:48

ok, got most of this this? however, is cold pressed rapeseed oil ok as being cold pressed I'm assuming its not been heated so the processing won't have damaged it?

I tend to use sunflower oil for stirfrys as you need the temp to be higher but olive oil for most other things. Is sunflower oil not great? I always thought it was fine.

We still use lard for roasts, yorkshire puddings and butter for most other things like on bread.

TheSecondComing Sun 13-Jan-13 11:54:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tee2072 Sun 13-Jan-13 11:54:39

And there is nothing wrong with orange juice, any more than there is anything wrong with butter, in terms of processing, so long as all it is, is squeezed to get the juice out.

So you don 't want 'from concentrate'. You want 'fresh squeezed'.

You can tell because either the only ingredient listed is 'oranges' or there is no ingredient list because there doesn't have to be one if there is only one ingredient, i.e. oranges.

My diabetic dietician actually had me change to olive oil spread over butter, but also to regular sugar over any kind of artificial sweetener.

I am interested in this idea that controlling cholesterol is not needed, especially as genetically I could eat lettuce all day and still have high cholesterol. I shall have to investigate further.

ginmakesitallok Sun 13-Jan-13 12:01:47

SO - how does the advice above square with the clear links between saturated fats and type 2 diabetes??

JollyToddles Sun 13-Jan-13 12:03:34

100% orange juice from concentrate also only contains orange. And having read/heard about how Tropicana produce their 'not from concentrate' juices I've come to the conclusion that 'from concentrate' is really not any worse. Just make sure there is no added sugar.

We use olive oil, but also have sunflower oil in the house for making curries or skirlie as both taste better with sunflower oil. We do not have rapeseed oil due to a family history of asthma.

We also have Flora Buttery. We go through about 1 tub a month, if that. I figure at that little level of consumption we don't really need to worry too much.

I will buy some ghee at some point though, for cooking.

AKissIsNotAContract Sun 13-Jan-13 12:04:55

Sorry but freshly squeezed orange juice is different from eating an orange. The intrinsic sugars in the whole fruit become extrinsic and are absorbed by the body differently.

wildirishrose Sun 13-Jan-13 12:08:34

Squeeze an orange into a glass and see what happens. Carton juices have additives

Tee2072 Sun 13-Jan-13 12:09:28

Okay, I had a Google and can't find anything about the cholesterol thing mentioned above. Anyone have any links to any research?

Are they AKiss? Well then I would think the natural whatever in milk would become whatever when churned and turned into butter as well. Are they?

In other words...I think most of this is bullshit and woo and not based on anything but opinion.

Eat less. Move more. Gain control.™

That's my motto. And I really have trademarked it...

Thumbwitch Sun 13-Jan-13 12:09:57

All edible-by-humans rapeseed oil (or canola) comes from oilseed rape that has been selectively bred to be lower in erucic acid, which may have an adverse effect on heart tissue in humans (but this hasn't been conclusively proven). It is now also available from genetically engineered oilseed rape as well.

As said before, cooking with oils that are high in polyunsaturated fats is bad because they are prone to chemical changes at high temperatures. Mono-unsaturated oils, such as olive oil, are less prone to these changes; and saturated fats least prone to such changes. Of course if you heat any fat to smoking point you will get changes anyway, which are undesirable for health purposes.

As we produce most of the cholesterol we require in our own bodies (~80%), restricting consumption is fairly pointless, except in cases of familial hypercholesterolaemia, where all fats are heavily restricted. One of the things that can change the amount of cholesterol that we produce is to exercise more, because that increases our requirement for coenzyme Q10, which is an energy source for mitochondria in muscles. Coenzyme Q10 and cholesterol share a common biochemical pathway up to a certain point, where it diverges - so doing more exercise --> need more Q10 --> less cholesterol produced.
Sadly, most pharmaceutical statins block the pathway while it is still common, thus reducing people's ability to produce coenzyme Q 10 as well as cholesterol (not too clever, really).

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