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DP thinks that women shouldn't be more afraid of men than men should be because more men are murdered than women.

(56 Posts)
Fantastictwistsand Mon 31-Jul-17 19:57:23

Is he right? Statistically it seems he is.

It started off as an argument about women's only short lists and then came on to this. I've argued that women have much less of a chance against a man and he says I've turned it into an emotive argument now. I'm really frustrated but he might actually be right.

Yeahnahyeah Sat 01-Dec-18 07:21:55

For the love of gawd, can some of you not just see that violence to either men or woman is mainly caused in both cases by men?? Male violence is the problem. In either case.

kooshbin Sat 03-Nov-18 20:31:08

Some decades ago I got into a debate with a philosophy lecturer who said he didn't understand why old people were afraid of going out at night given that most assaults victims were young males. He really couldn't get the point that the reason why most assault victims at night were young males was because the old people stayed at home.

OP - get your DP to list all the circumstances where a man can get killed or assaulted by a man. Then get him to list all the circumstances where a woman can get killed or assaulted by a man.

nellieellie Sat 03-Nov-18 19:24:36

....to add, the stats for sexual crimes are separate, and women form vast majority of victims.

nellieellie Sat 03-Nov-18 19:13:30

I think the stats though, include men being assaulted when they are basically having punch ups in the pub etc. If you think about it, group of men having a row, yelling at each other. Then one guy throws a punch. It descends into fisticuffs. You could have 2 or 3 assaults there. If a woman gets attacked, it’s going to be a partner, family member, or random stranger - not brawling in the street. You also need to factor in sexual assaults - women being groped, harassed, - men don’t walk down the street in fear of that after dark.

Xxfemale Thu 12-Apr-18 20:37:41

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Xxfemale Thu 12-Apr-18 20:36:13

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Datun Mon 07-Aug-17 10:14:59

If I'm out and about, I rarely think I might get mugged or killed. I think I might get propositioned, leered at cornered, harassed. If any of those things happens in a quiet area, then absolutely I will be worried. Because I've been specifically targeted on the basis of my sex, not my behaviour.

My job used to involve a lot of interaction with rich, middle-aged men (in a sales capacity). Sexism was a gimmee. As was low-level assault - hands on hips when squeezing by - handsy behaviour in general. Constant levels of creepiness and leching.

Men are rarely exposed to that sort of behaviour. I don't think it's any surprise that women are fully aware that that sort of behaviour can be unequivocably imposed, purely on the basis of strength.

Most women have had an example of a man using his strength to impose stuff on her. Whether it's shouting her down, coercing her into sex, or dominating generally.

To take actual murder statistics and ignore this very common experience is disingenuous.

Women are constantly reminded of the strength differential, in the way men aren't.

One in four women are the victim of sexual assault. Statistically that might mean it's someone they know, but low level harassment is experienced almost daily by men they don't know.

So yes, if someone looks like they're going to attack me I might hope that all I need do is give them my purse, but any stand-off will be completely inequal and I am fully aware than I have something they can take from me, that men don't have.

Aridane Wed 02-Aug-17 17:47:55

I wanted to be Ariadne but, alas, the name was taken...

ArgyMargy Tue 01-Aug-17 18:20:17

Well I typed Aridane but obviously my phone knew better...

ArgyMargy Tue 01-Aug-17 18:19:44

Same, Ariadne grin

Aridane Tue 01-Aug-17 16:26:37

I don't know the stats - but I've always worked on the basis that men are more likely to be assaulted than women. So when I walk home alone late at night - fear free - and I'm asked, 'oh weren't you afraid?', I've always responded along the lines of OP's DH

TimbuktuTimbuktu Tue 01-Aug-17 15:54:34

One in four women a victim of rape or sexual assault in their lifetime is the statistic I believe.

GinaFordCortina Tue 01-Aug-17 15:53:12

It's only unhelpful if you're a goady fucker.

scaryclown Tue 01-Aug-17 15:48:04

One in four is unhelpful. Do you mean one in four men assault women?

scaryclown Tue 01-Aug-17 15:44:37

In the last but one general election, I did some market research. Nearly 50% of respondent s thought Nigel farage was likely to become prime minister, because he was on the telly alot ukip were unlikely even to get one MP.
'informed' isn't the same as 'hearing the same message over and over'

7Days Tue 01-Aug-17 15:19:09

One in 4 is simple enough for even thickoes like me to understand.

Until they are branded with a scarlet P for predator I won't know who to be wary of.

GinaFordCortina Tue 01-Aug-17 15:10:10

People are bad at statistics which is why they worry about Islamic terrorist and not just all men

Fantastictwistsand Tue 01-Aug-17 14:56:32

Scary he isn't, I asked him as part of the conversation.

ArgyMargy Tue 01-Aug-17 13:41:42

scary is right. People just can't understand statistics. Which is why they think they'll win the lottery or get blown up by Islamist extremists. Meanwhile women are in a perpetual state of fear of things that will never happen to them, while young men continue to drive like lunatics, keep their mental illnesses to themselves and go to places where they'll encounter hostility from other young men.

TimbuktuTimbuktu Tue 01-Aug-17 11:16:18

I'm not saying that I agree with this. I am attempting to observe and analyse patterns of behaviour. I'm saying this is the way things are. Not the way they ought to be.

I disagree that men and non feminist women don't reinforce the stranger dAnger narrative to women.

I would argue that the logical solution is that women should be less afraid than they are but also that men should be more afraid- or at least have increased awareness of their own personal safety.

I suspect that women will always fear rape more than men though and I think that adds and additional element to the risk analysis.

What I actually think would have a massive impact on women's personal safety would be to teach all young women the signs of controlling and abusive behaviour in an intimate partner relationship. That way they might be able to spot the warnings and get away before they are seriously harmed.

GinaFordCortina Tue 01-Aug-17 11:00:25

If I lived in a village that grew a particular kind of fruit and 1/4 of the people in my village had been made seriously ill because of the fruit. I wouldn't eat the fucking fruit. I'd stay well clear of the fruit.

GinaFordCortina Tue 01-Aug-17 10:57:51

Why increase the fear to 'always' when the facts mean you should almost never be afraid. What's your agenda
It's not the men making women afraid, it's the irrationally scared women trying to get other women to join them in their agenda based paranoia.

Fathers never say they don't want any man dating their daughter.

Men never say women shouldn't get drunk, go out alone, or wear revealing clothes.

There are not entire male MRA forums dedicated to teaching men how to take advantage of drunk women.

Good to know. I'm not sure who you think you can convince scary, but the women here are intelligent and better informed than you. You make yourself look, well, less so.

scaryclown Tue 01-Aug-17 10:36:32

By the way OP you husband is saying he feels afraid sometimes.

scaryclown Tue 01-Aug-17 10:35:19

When you say 'us' what do you mean? That every man has a shared bit of 'assault women' so every woman needs to be afraid unless that bit rises up and controls him, or do you mean the reality, which is the vast majority of women can trust the men around them all the time, but a few can't,?

scaryclown Tue 01-Aug-17 10:31:37

And the sexual assault they used was from 2001. They are still using it 17 years later.

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