Trans issue affecting my relationship with DD(28 Posts)
My DD is 18 lives at home and has a boyfriend
I am old school feminist and brought her up to be strong independent and confident. All of which she is. She's been a vocal feminist at shook and is very switched on to equality issues generally. All good
We started to differ about the politics of trans/feminism a year or so ago. Lots of difficult but interesting thought provoking conversations followed. I ended up asking her not to call me cis for example. She and I are on the opposite sides of the table when it comes to trans issues.
I'm lost. I need a way to manage my feelings. I adore her and am so proud of her and she knows it
Today she posted a massive critical lecture to and of me on my FB page where I had linked to an article about the Green Party's use of "non-man". I have deleted my FB account and feel utterly humiliated. She didn't mean to upset me she is terribly sorry
But I need help in managing this growing point of difference. And to not put her in the feminist-hating camp. Because she is a feminist! But she and I seem to both fulfil the stereotype of the "other" viewpoint for each other. When we talk it's not too bad we find points of agreement but oh did it hurt being publicly lectured by my DD about cis bigotry and spreading of hate.
I have no idea where to post this.
Apologies if this is a glib response, but have you considered pointing her to MN? There are some incredibly eloquent and well informed posters on here, and I have seen many posters (I was one) have their eyes opened on the potentially damaging impact of trans rights on women.
She will always butt heads with you, you are her mum, but she might value being able to discuss the issues with others as well with the emotional family connection taken out of the equation.
Why on earth did she post that on your Facebook? Regardless of your political differences, that was very disrespectful. She should be very sorry!
It must be hard, but I think you have to view it as you would any difference of opinion, be it about politics, sport whatever.
Your dd is an adult and is entitled to have her own views and you've clearly done a great job in raising her to be able to express opinions and debate. I think you'll have to agree to disagree on this. It's not a reflection or you or your relationship that she doesn't always agree with you.
If there are topics you disagree on so strongly, it would be best not to discuss them so often. It's great to have lively debates, but if you both end up feeling frustrated and you think it's damaging your relationship, then it's probably best to avoid these situations for the moment.
I'm in the same position!!
What I've decided to do is not talk about it and not go on the attack
If she brings anything up I give her my viewpoint calmly and then say I will not argue as I don't want to argue. She is old enough to respect I have a point of view
But it's so hard, I'm going to sound patronising but I can see how she's been swept up with the initial momentum of it all and her passion, but she can't see the impact it will make on women
Oh anyway your dc should be on her knees humiliating you in that way I'd want her to apologise on fb if I were you
Sign me up to the empathy club.
I tried to explain to DD that feminism or lesbian rights can easily be in conflict with TG rights: DD won't have it. I truly hope she's right. We have agreed to disagree over CIS.
You didn't need to delete FB account, surely. Could have deleted her msg on your wall & replace it with a glib bit of humour "Now returning to our regularly scheduled Buckingfrolicks broadcasts" or some such.
If DD ranted at me like that... I would put her in the FB Acquaintences category & be mindful not to post things DD would rant at in public/friends category. And then post whatever I felt like yet again.
Can you link here to the NoMan article your DD took offence at?
ha! I found an article in Independent. Those tweets are hilarious.
I think that what she did was out of fucking order
Disagree on major points, yes.
Make it so public and so personal, no
You say you are proud of her but she has a shed load of growing up to do
Feminism and respect for your parents are not mutually exclusive
I wouldn't be so hangdog, op
What AF said.
The issue isn't your differences of opinion over trans issues, it's her blatant disregard for and belittling of you. I'd be handing her her arse on a plate tbh.
My DD is an adult, living at home and this is an area we disagree on.
We respect each other's differences, even though each thinks the other wrong.
But I'd never attack and humiliate her on FB and she wouldn't dream of doing it to me. Joke and tease maybe, but there's a line we don't cross.
That's what your DD has done wrong IMO, and it's good that she's sorry she distressed you. Perhaps with a bit more maturity, she'll learn not to hammer others into the floor with her opinions. DD is working on that...
So, you're by no means alone OP.
She might have seen your sharing of that article as provocation. By posting it on Facebook you invited discussion, you can't expect everyone to just like and agree. Especially if you're already aware of people on your friends list who profoundly disagree with you on that matter.You seem to be pretty dismissive of her views and I can't see how your thread here is much better than her publicly disagreeing with her on Facebook.
I guess political differences with people you love is always difficult to handle. That's for example a reason why I avoid discussing immigration or religion with my dad. But if he starts, I sure will respond. Luckily he's not on Facebook though...
Agree with AF.
What she did was hugely disrespectful and deliberately humiliating.
It undermines her argument and makes her look like a petulant brat tbf.
" I can't see how your thread here is much better than her publicly disagreeing with her on Facebook."
I don't think it compares at all. We've no idea who the OP is IRL, much less her daughter!
You are both adults and you have differing viewpoints. That shouldn't really be that difficult to cope with. She is entitled to think differently to you.
You could have just deleted the FB post. Maybe it was poor judgment on her part but it was followed by a big over-reaction on yours.
She will have been taught it at school, its a new orthodoxy and if you challenge it are compared to being a racist. That's why young people get so confused by it. My daughters grew out of it.
You have encouraged your daughter to critically think and have and assert her own opinions. You have also encouraged the political use of social media (by sharing a political article).
How can you be upset when she disagrees with you and asserts her own political thoughts?
(Regardless of the issue - I probably agree with you more than her)
Your actions and your post send a clear message - I’m ok with you having thoughts of your own as long as they’re the same as mine.
Deleting your account seems an odd response. Do you have your Facebook open to people who'd have an issues with your views? If so I would have asked her to remove her post. If not I would have rebutted it. But then my Facebook is only open to my close friends and family and I'd have no issue if they knew I was gender critical (would have been an issue with a previous workplace).
I would say listen to her with empathy and work out how it is that she sees the world so differently from you. Perhaps look at what it is you value in people and does she show those qualities - things such as empathy, compassion and love - qualities you have always encouraged in her. Is she the sort of person you think shows characteristics you would encourage?
One thing I found very illuminating was the differences in views held by Transfolk themselves. I would point her that way to look at Debbie Hayton, Kristina Harrison Fionne Orlander, Transfolk United and other varying views. The one big dominating view isnt shared by loads of transpeople!
I do hope you got an apology from her? Sounds like she's woke, but has a lot of growing up to do.
It was disrespectful of her to publicly humiliate you, and you can let her know that. I find myself silenced by this.
I totally understand op I am in the same position with DS1, he agrees with some of my opinions but ultimately has signed up to the LGBT stonewall view and I have to accept that at the moment he sees me as old school and hopelessly out of touch mainly because I am his mum.
For the sake of our relationship we don't go there any more, he is a smart kid and I am hopeful he will get it when he is a bit older. I would hide DD on your FB account and carry on posting your thoughts.
I have to tread warily with DS who has been affected by regulatory capture at work. We respectfully discuss only superficially, and make the odd joke, but I resist the urge to share articles and bombard him with information.
I maybe working on his girlfriend though.
So if she didn't mean to upset you and said that she's sorry, what's the issue? She's 18, whatever the argument, 18 year olds aren't known for their tact on social media.
You purposefully posted something publically you knew would upset her and something that you knew would affect your relationship. What did you expect?
I would keep her well away from the anti-trans stuff on Mumsnet, some of it's really nasty and not nice for an 18 year old with trans friends to read. And the arguments I've seen are really crap, so it really won't convince her of anything. She'll either see it and ignore it, or get into an argument and end up being anxious. No matter what side you're on, keeping your kids away from toxic internet forums is a good idea.
This anti-trans stuff reminds me so much of the anti-bi and homophobic stuff I've felt in my lifetime. As horrible as it is/was feeling like you're invalid or "wrong" as a bisexual, I feel like trans people have it a lot worse.
Also, what's your issue with being called cis?
This situation must be very upsetting for you op, I'd say just hold fast, stand firm and breathe deeply and realise that quite possibly your daughter is well on the way to becoming the proud feminist that you've raised.
All this shit is not personal, it must feel that way but she's finding her own way in the world. She's your daughter and if you can still communicate in real life, then that's good.
The cis affix is extraordinarily insulting., I'm struggling to articulate why it's so very insulting. I'm a woman, I don't need an additional word. Woman is good enough.
Her developing an interest in transfeminism is in some ways a development of the excellent grounding in what you call old school feminism. She is responding to the ever-deepening and changing world of gender around her. She was unthinking to criticise you on Facebook and it's natural to be hurt by this. YOung people often don't think about the full implications of their actions. It sound s like you have an excellent relationship though. If you want to read more about trans issues I found The transgender Studies reader by Susan Stryker and Stephen Whittle very useful. Perhaps if you read that or ask her what she suggests you read, and you offer her an old school text she hasn't read you will find out more from each other. Good luck!
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