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Anti-Transgendered thread in Chat

(628 Posts)
countessmarkyabitch Fri 20-Feb-15 12:39:58

Started off as a vague question about what makes you feel like a woman, lots of people started mentioning transwomen, naturally. Has now turned into some posters stating that transwomen are just men and shouldn't be allowed use female things like toilets and rape crisis, pretty much anything.

I find this really offensive and have stopped engaging. My personal feminism encompasses women who were born in male bodies, and supports their struggle to be recognised as women. I also think they need the protection and help of feminists as a particularly at risk group.

Is this an unusual stance? Does anyone agree with me?

TheCowThatLaughs Mon 23-Feb-15 21:11:22

heartis maybe he left his luggage on the bus or something??

Bellimperia Mon 23-Feb-15 19:55:36

Thanks for the link to the article in the Weekly Standard FloraFox. It's well worth a read. I especially liked this from the conclusion:

there is something to be said for the radfems’ emperor’s-new-clothes view of the middle-aged male-to-female transitioners who now dominate the transgender scene. It does seem odd that someone who lived two-thirds of her life as a man is now lauded as America’s highest-paid female CEO, or that people who weren’t born female gripe on the Internet about “male privilege.” It seems equally odd that a board co-chairman of a leading gay and lesbian rights organization is someone whose life experiences and even sexual orientation resemble those of neither gays nor lesbians. It’s hard not to wonder whether such stereotypically male traits as aggression, competitiveness, and libido dominandi haven’t played a role in late-in-life transitioners’ thrust to the forefront of feminist and LGBT ranks​—​and in their scorched-earth pushback against anyone who criticizes them.

ArcheryAnnie Mon 23-Feb-15 18:44:47

I can't watch Justin without thinking of this:

FloraFox Mon 23-Feb-15 18:32:30

FloraFox Mon 23-Feb-15 18:31:50

There's a few of them like that.

This is a long read but quite comprehensive on the background to this issue:

heartisaspade Mon 23-Feb-15 18:08:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheCowThatLaughs Mon 23-Feb-15 18:00:53

Justin killian has gone one step further and can't even be arsed to go to the trouble of putting a dress on before he declares himself a woman shock

heartisaspade Mon 23-Feb-15 16:23:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OddBoots Mon 23-Feb-15 16:08:22

The person in the video was being cheered because it was a rally of people who think the same way.

HouseWhereNobodyLives Mon 23-Feb-15 16:07:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

heartisaspade Mon 23-Feb-15 15:59:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FloraFox Mon 23-Feb-15 15:51:57

Annie I'd love to be shocked by that interaction. It does make me think of Germaine Greer's quote that women have no idea how much men hate them. Or Ally Fogg could just be an individual fucking tool. Or both.

ArcheryAnnie Mon 23-Feb-15 15:44:22

Jesus, Flora, I've just looked at Fogg's TL. What a fucking tool he is. Women say "violence of type x happens to lesbians" and he replies - without drawing breath to enquire about evidence - that they are talking "paranoid nonsense". That's made me so angry.

FloraFox Mon 23-Feb-15 15:29:50

Ally Fogg also had an attack of the vapours on twitter the other day when asked about having sex with a non-op transwoman. He then dismissed the lesbians telling them their experiences of being called bigots as "paranoid nonsense". This issue really makes it clear who listens to women's voices and who wants to talk over women. And men wonder why women don't want them involved in feminism.

So many hypocritical fuckers.

MrsTawdry Mon 23-Feb-15 13:51:10

It's a complex subject and he really should do his research. I know very little but I know that I wouldn't be talking publicly about it.

TheCowThatLaughs Mon 23-Feb-15 12:45:32

I expect you're both right, hully and mrstawdry. The information is out there after all!

Hullygully Mon 23-Feb-15 12:39:06

He could TheCow, my hopeful thought is that it was a knee jerk mea culpa response to his first hearing of the (soi disant) issue and he will have time to get his little self educated and then do a much bigger mea culpa.

ArcheryAnnie Mon 23-Feb-15 12:35:14

There's no debate.

I completely agree with you, MrsTawdry but Owen Jones is actively supporting and promoting the people who have made it into a debate, while holding himself above it all. Hence: hypocritical fucker.

MrsTawdry Mon 23-Feb-15 12:34:07

x post. My "probably" was for Cow

MrsTawdry Mon 23-Feb-15 12:33:38

Yes probably. He's a brilliant man...a YOUNG man though...I will always admire him.

ethelb Mon 23-Feb-15 12:33:36

Has Owen Jones said what he thinks straight men should do if a trans woman wants to sleep with them?

TheCowThatLaughs Mon 23-Feb-15 12:31:51

He could have had a bit of a think and a read round the subject before he did his article though hmm

MrsTawdry Mon 23-Feb-15 12:31:10

I just don't see what people's preferences have to do with anyone else at all! People are so can't neatly box us all off into catagories! And unless the sex is illegal or abusive it's fuck all to do with anyone what anyone else does!

So what if lesbians don't want sex with penis owners!? So what if trans men don't want sex with WHOEVER! It's private, varied and personal. There's no debate.

Hullygully Mon 23-Feb-15 12:27:34

I think it's because Owen is new to it all. A lot of people think that way until they get deeper into it. <hopeful>

ArcheryAnnie Mon 23-Feb-15 12:23:48

MrsTawdry Owen is perfectly happy to praise, support and quote trans activists who attack lesbians for being "transphobic" for not wanting to have sex with people with penises. Some lesbians have come under a real barrage of abuse for saying that no, they will not contemplate sleeping with anyone who has a penis, whatever their identity.

Owen Jones is a hypocritical fucker if he thinks it's OK to ask women that, and to totally ignore the abuse his new comrades heap on lesbians, but terrible to ask him exactly the same question.

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