Men in Feminism (and their lack thereof)(67 Posts)
My wife and I being very expressive feminists always wonder why there are not as many men who are feminists. Though we know a lot of guys who are but we believe the lack of them is because they perceive it as a threat to their male self. Not being able to convince a lot of males to be a part of the movement, like most feminists, we work on 'empowering' women instead of persuading men to participate.
What steps do you think can be taken to have more participation by the male species?
I think there are many reasons. I think some don't know how to get involved or what to do. If there's a feminist meeting they might think men aren't wanted there. Or if they do go they'll feel uncomfortable.
I also think there are issues and conflicts in feminism. People regularly say feminism is just about equality but then with rad feminism it's more a critique of the whole system rather than saying we need 50/50 male and female soldiers, CEOs etc.
Unfortunately I don't have a good experience with male feminists. Especially ones who like to shout about it. I think it's part of their image. They often are most concerned with issues like porn and prositution, which serve their interests, and not so interested in 'boring' issues.
It's difficult as I think more men would be good as if we want society to change it has to involve everyone, but also when men start to get involved they can end up dominating the group.
Having grown up in the 60s as the first wave of feminism began I feel my reluctance to get involved was down to respect for what women were trying to do for themselves. Many of my contemporaries feel the same way. We don’t all see it as an attack on our privilege but as a necessity for women to have their own space by right.
"Men in feminism and the lack thereof"
Perhaps you would do better starting with the question "women in feminism and the lack thereof"
Perhaps fact that less than 10% of women in the UK self identify as feminists could help explain why so few men do.
I believe in equality and so do a lot of men but that's not what feminism is anymore. It's all about hating men and inventing things such privilege to make men fell bad about themselves
I've just read some of the answers on this thread and if you can't see that some of your answers and reasoning as to why men don't support feminism more is somewhat down to your answers.
Believe it or not most men don't even know what 'male privilege' is, so giving it up isn't a problem. The problem is, 'we' don't have anything to give up.
Most men can't relate to feminism because you're not talking a language they understand, also as I have found out myself, when they try to understand the language you are using and why then they get shouted down.
If you're not willing to discuss ideas you find offensive; in my experience on here; a lot of you aren't. Then don't be surprised if people don't understand what your issues are and why.
I expressed an idea on here that didn't go down well and maybe some of that is on me. However some people then started shouting rape statistics at me as if I condone rape? It was a strange and hostile experience.
As someone who did some feminist activism when I was younger, I can definitely say that it isn't the same as it used to be in my experience.
It's the same as what I think about right being in power at the moment, I don't think the right is winning, I think the left is losing. I think the same about feminism.
Also what type of feminism? The newest type has some disgusting elements to it. 60's feminists who helped massively with getting women off of the natural reproductive cycle, I'm all for and I think more feminists should be campaigning for this in developing and mainly religious countries.
I haven't read the entire thread but to the OP, as a man, feminism isn't only unwelcoming to some men it is genuinely hostile. Also there is a double standard.
The easiest way I can put this across is in the term mainsplaining. I'm using this example because it has become such a flippant term.
Can you imagine what you would think if I told a woman, after she has just said her piece, that she needs to stop womoaning and get on with it.
People use the term all the time when they don't like what's being said because it's being said by a man.
There are much deeper reasons I believe why there are not more men involved with feminism. I'd have to go down a list of reasons why a lot of feminism is actually misandry, but my opinion on that on here wouldn't go down well. Why do you think that would be?
Ultimately men will always care more about what fellow men think than what women think in a social hierarchy sense.
It's ignorance and hypocrisy like this that more men are not involved. Statements like that above made by someone truly caring about both sexes... Not.
Feminism is dead. Unfortunately it has taken a sinister, hypocitic and utterly victim soaked turn for the worse over the last two decades or so.
Instead of focusing on working together as a society its become a battle between men and women where women are encouraged to view men as the enemy. Unfortunately this will only lead to the reverse of what those people are aiming for, in which disparity between the sexes will grow not fade.
The main reason this has happened is that there has been a large increase of women taking up the cause who, often through no fault of their own are just downright dumb. They shout about this and that without any actual in depth understanding of what they are actually hoping to achieve. Equality, equality, they shout. But they don't understand what equality is.
They don't understand the difference between equality of outcome and equality of opportunity, and unfortunately much of what they preach falls under the former, which will only lead down a catastrophic path in the times ahead.
They don't understand fully the differences between men and men and women and why we both need each other if we are to prosper on any level of society.
Is so sad when I see women on this warpath where they see masculinity as something of a bad thing, yet they are puzzled as to why at the same time, a book depicting a woman being completely sexualy dominated by a man would be the fastest selling book in the history of the planet and the hotest topic amongst women worldwide. Rebelling against things just makes them come back with a vengance. Trying to crush male dominance has manifested itself with woman craving that dominance that they desire. That's self evident.
If you're going to fight for feminism and try to revive it at least have some understanding of what you're fighting for. It's not a battle against men.
We do not live in a patriarchal misogynist society, only a bitter under-achieving woman would asert this. Women today are not victims and are cabable to do with their life what they please.
Even when we weren't, it wasn't men holding us back. Things like the pill, tampons, and dishwashers have all helped us progress.
With the disgusting turn that feminism has taken I can't for the life of me understand why any man would step near such a cancer unless under duress. The fact that there are now male counter groups should be a danger sign that it's going in the wrong direction.
Just for those who spout off figures as some justification for their man hating: it's men who are most likely to be on the receiving end of male violence. Its men who have the highest suicide rates, men who are mostly incarcerated, men who are mostly homeless, men who mostly die in war, men who under acheive at school, men who suffer most violence in general, men who are murdered most often, men who suffer more mental health problems.
Both sexes suffer in different areas. Dtop all the victim nonesence it makes me sick to be viewed as so pitiful.
What the dumb women make the mistake of doing is confusing male achievement and male competence with male dominance and tyranny. They are very different. The difference being that male achievement and competence is attractive and good for women.
Be less dumb and think about what your fighting for even use some brain cells and research it. Let's bring feminism out of this dispicaple evil ditch it's lost in. Fighting for equality of outcome is just sexism in a different form, but sends us back not forward.
Feminism doesn't need men, and by and large they aren't really wanted or welcomed. I don't think feminism will be massively hampered if we just let women get on with it.
Oh bless you. Of course you do.
Can you not think of any at all that you could do to support feminism?
I think a lot feminists can be quite aggressive in how they put their point across, and it puts people off. What do you want men to do to be more involved in feminism specifically OP?
I see men taking feminist positions all the time on social media and what happens? Other men shout them down and try to mock and discredit their intentions, framing it as a sly attempt to ingratiate themselves with women because they want sex. Pretty effective shut down too, especially for heterosexual men.
Ultimately men will always care more about what fellow men think than what women think in a social hierarchy sense.
If what we see in the media is anything to go by. The minute a man comes out publicly as a feminist you can start the countdown on how long it will be until he’s revealed as a sexual predator!
My DP is as fierce as I am but he is firmly in the ally position. He supports me, helps me and makes his space feminist.
He doesn't feel he has the right to speak on behalf of me.
He's there in the background, always learning. Reading blogs, watching YouTube videos like Magdalen Verbs, Peachy Yogurt, Posie Parker.
He engages men but he doesn't talk on female threads.
@chris71 The reason a lot of men do not opt into the feminism movement is because it is not relevant to them. Women already have equality and have done since the feminist movement of the suffragettes and so on. Right now feminists spout dishonest statements about a gender pay gap and manipulated statistics about domestic abuse. A lot of people see the new feminist movement for what it really is, a nasty movement seeped in misandry/man hating ideals. This is why in the UK less than HALF of women describe themselves as feminists and men even less so. If you believe in equality of the sexes that's fine but what feminism has become these days is much more malicious.
@HouseMousQueen Your view on the Men's Rights movement is very worrying. It's purpose isn't to throw women back to the 50's. It's purpose is to help men with suicide issues and fight against the overwhelmingly large disparity between men and women in divorce settlements. Women twice more likely to get the kids in a divorce and men are three times more likely to succeed in committing suicide. I suggest you read up on the group's origin and purpose before making up your own view about them.
I can easily understand why most blokes turn their backs on feminism.
As other posters have mentioned, the average guy does not represent either the small % of white males who dominate at the top, nor the equally small % at the bottom who commit VAWG, and they don't want to be lumped into a pigeonhole and be lectures about the above.. As the recent thread on here demonstrated, most posters who drone on about two women a week being killed by men don't even realise that 84 men a week commit suicide and that many feminists have successfully campaigned against events intended to address this issue - like feminists successfully getting IMD cancelled at York University.
I also think that some elements of the toxic masculinity argument can be perceived as an attack on general 'maleness'. I know plenty of men who are competitive, 'masculine', etc by nature and who wouldn't want to redefine themselves to the feminist notion of 'what a man should be'.
Internet Prawn and guess which group of Asian Muslims fare worst? Girls.
InternetPrawn wonder why that might be? O I know institutional and social racism perhaps?
InternetPrawn white working-class boys do indeed fare badly in school, but doesn't make them the bottom of the heap. After school white working-class boys do better in work than their Asian Muslim and black counterparts.
Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women.
It is the only political movement that is expected to serve everyone.
We know why.
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