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How to eliminate the patriarchy?

(173 Posts)
BelleCurve Sat 02-Apr-11 15:05:33

Whilst researching the Institute of Directors recently I came across this fantastic piece of double-think on their website commenting on the gender pay gap -

"the Government should have accepted the hard evidence which shows that influences and choices made by women at the pre-employment stage are what generally lead to average gender pay differences"

It is just so sexist and privileged that it took my breath away for a moment.

Also, the Arab revolutions where it seems that one patriarchal system is being replaced by a potentially worse (for women) one has made me realise that these guys are never going to give up easily.

I have had enough of this system and need to focus my energies into solutions

This is a genuine question - how can we overcome, remove, eliminate the patriarchy?

PS - if after the other thread on this topic, you still don't "get" the patriarchy or don't see the problem, feel free not to contribute here.

Classwar Sun 03-Apr-11 08:45:09

And will they be for equality, or more on women's side?

StewieGriffinsMom Sun 03-Apr-11 08:47:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

InmaculadaConcepcion Sun 03-Apr-11 09:39:55

BC, you mentioned upthread that if 70% of MPs were women, places like lap-dancing clubs would be less likely to get licences etc. etc.

Well, there's one way of starting a non-violent revolution. If feminist thinkers joined the main political parties en masse, especially if they could outnumber the pro-patriarchy thinkers, then we could start exerting real influence on the decisions made in our country. Also if we invaded took over the majorities on school boards and other organisations that heavily influence culture and policy, we could guide decisions in favour of female-friendly changes etc.

As a technique, it was used by the pro-hunting lobby I seem to remember - loads of them joined the RSPCA in order to push a powerful animal charity into their way of thinking. Likewise it's been oft-mooted in the US with the gun control lobby being encouraged to en masse join the NRA and so stop it from using its influence in favour of relaxed gun ownership laws etc.

There's a suggestion for you, anyway!

BelleCurve Sun 03-Apr-11 09:57:40

That's an interesting one IC, the trojan horse approach.

Is there a feminist view on whether the new alternative vote system could benefit us? I couldn't see much advantage to either approach really but it would be interesting to know if any analysis has been done.

On noodle69's point about women staying with abusive partners, I don't view this as weak but a rational choice that they would be worse off on their own under the patriarchal system. If the system were more accepting of single women, mothers and children it would be easier to leave for an individual.

HerBeX Sun 03-Apr-11 12:30:16

"Why they lie back and accept this I will never understand."

Won't you noodle? No, I don't suppose you will, after all, there have been hundreds of threads on mumsnet about domestic violence and it has been explained over and over again, the various different reasons why some women "lie back and accept this" as you put it, but if you are determined not to understand then you never will no matter how many times people explain it to you.

To understand something, you have to actually want to understand it and listen to poeple when they explain it and remember what they said next time the conversation arises...

HerBeX Sun 03-Apr-11 12:31:13

And yes the Trojan Horse approach is a good one.

<Considers whether joining the Tory Party would stick too much in the craw. OTOH, the men are better dressed than the Labour Party ones...>

hogsback Sun 03-Apr-11 13:01:38

HerBeX - it will be interesting to see what happens in medicine and law over the next few years. If the numbers graduating are anything to go by, those professions will be dominated by women over time. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean they will be dominated by feminists.

Of course we all know what usually happens to the status of professions when they start being seen as primarily female occupations sad

NotDavidTennant Sun 03-Apr-11 13:55:35

im22: 'To put this fact in a real environment, suppose you and I work the same job, but you work it with the mindset that you outlined above, ie "My choice is to have a really interesting, engaging, high status, high paid career and to function properly as a hands on mother with lots of time and energy for my children with a really good work life balance", whereas I worked it with the mindset of the patriarchal male - that I would have a more work orientated balance. Assuming our work output etc were equal, I would expect to get promoted etc faster than you because I would work more hours, spend less time off for sick kids etc etc and so on'

If you were working longer hours then HerBex but still only producing exactly the same output as her then you'd be the less productive worker, and presumably less worthy of a promotion.

But thanks for a nice illustration of the illogicality that leads to the job markert not being 'the best way for it to work'.

noodle69 Sun 03-Apr-11 14:33:01

I am not talking about domestic violence or anything that severe HerBeX I am talking about the women who do everything for their man and accept him not even cleaning, getting up with the kids, changing a nappy etc.

InmaculadaConcepcion Sun 03-Apr-11 20:53:31

You could join all three parties, HerBex - in fact, if all feminist thinkers did that it would be even better! There are no rules against it AFAIK...

HerBeX Sun 03-Apr-11 21:19:08

But that has also been discussed ad nauseum noodle, and explanations offered.

You may not agree with the explanations, you may not be able to imagine being in the mindset which accepts this type of inequality, but to never be able to understand them? Really? Never?

HerBeX Sun 03-Apr-11 21:21:16

LOL Notdavidtennant that is indeed beautifully spotted.

And in fact, is a very real illustration of what quite often actually happens. Canny bosses know that they get much more productivity out of their part time workers, than out of their full time ones. We give them the productivity and efficiency equivalent of about four days full time work, and they only have to pay us 2 and a half days.

sakura Mon 04-Apr-11 08:31:08

Firstly, as with any political movement, you need to mobilize the masses. The internet is a good tool, I just watched a lecture on youtube about how women are leading the social media revolution. I think this is connected to the way women relate to each other, we are very good at communication because this is one survival tactic under patriarchy.
Actually this is pretty hard, there are still lots of women in the world who are male-identified misogynists, because under patriarchy they are rewarded for this. Actually, if you're a male-identified misogynist as you're going to get promoted in almost every field.

Then you need action. Non-violent action is the only way to go with women's liberation. The world is fucked if women try to emulate men.

So at first, we need political changes. The steps made against the sex industry in Iceland were a good start. This is not the revolution but it will do a lot to raise women's self-esteem. Banning porn would reduce rape and violence against women, thereby reducing the state of subconcsious fear that every woman lives with every day without even realising it.

The personal is political, so women should stop getting married and living with men. I've reached the conclusion that male-female pair-bonding is the pillar that holds up the patriarchy and keeps it rock solid. This is the very key. Women should live with their friends, sisters, old classmates, other single mothers, or their own mothers. This is the quickest way to make the entire house of cards collapse.

sakura Mon 04-Apr-11 08:37:06

dittany, I too have been thinking about how hardcore the women in the past were compared to us. They were very very brave women indeed.

I hate the fact they haven't been given their place in history for their utter commitment to fighting for social justice.

Classwar Mon 04-Apr-11 10:14:30

'The personal is political, so women should stop getting married and living with men. I've reached the conclusion that male-female pair-bonding is the pillar that holds up the patriarchy and keeps it rock solid. This is the very key. Women should live with their friends, sisters, old classmates, other single mothers, or their own mothers. This is the quickest way to make the entire house of cards collapse.'

You leave your husband first then.

Let us know when you've left him.

dittany Mon 04-Apr-11 10:55:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sakura Mon 04-Apr-11 11:32:27

What has that got to do with the price of fish, Classwar?

A woman staying with or leaving her husband does not change the objective truth about the patriarchal structures.

sakura Mon 04-Apr-11 11:37:24

Classwar. Is that someone who is against the class system, against the bourgoisie

Not a very authentic proletarian if you've got a PC are you Classwar

dittany Mon 04-Apr-11 11:42:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sakura Mon 04-Apr-11 11:42:27

Urgh, feel like someone's stalking me

sakura Mon 04-Apr-11 11:46:13

And it's not you Dittany

dittany Mon 04-Apr-11 12:22:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sakura Mon 04-Apr-11 12:24:05

right back at you

sakura Mon 04-Apr-11 12:25:44

I actually do. No irony.

dittany Mon 04-Apr-11 12:32:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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