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To not know how to deal with ds behaviour(273 Posts)
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MN has always been great at giving advice and I've posted about this before but I'm really at rock bottom now.
I have a ds who will be 5 soon, since the summer of 2017 he was been wicked towards his sister(born Feb 2017) at first it started with snatching toys off her and laughing.
Then it progressed to hitting her, kicking her.
The hitting and kicking stopped but he has got obsessive over her, if she is in the kitchen he has to be too. He wont play if she isn't outside.
If she sits on the floor he will sit right beside her.
Recently he has;
Pushed her head into our fence. Made her eat stones and smacked her when she refused. Put her toys in a bucket and slap her when she goes near them. He throws her dinner on the floor, pours out her water(doesn't want her to have them is his answer)
I have since had a baby and a few times he has dropped toys on her head - he can't give me an answer why.
I am sitting here wishing I was dead to be totally fucking honest. I hate my son, it probably shows. I am sick to the back teeth of my daughter being hurt.
Many times I've contemplated suicide just so I don't have to deal with this kid. I have no will to go on, I'm completely done.
I've begged SS to take him(not as simple as that I know!) But they don't do anything.
I need immediate help, I'm failing, every single fucking second of the day and I can't get a grip on anything 😢
Do you have a partner? What are they doing to help? Please see your GP asap for these thoughts. Lay it on the line and demand support. Do you have other family nearby?
Yes but he is not ds dad, he currently works evenings (the time when ds plays up more as my eyes are on the baby/making dinner)
GP won't do anything would they?
My mum is minutes away and I've begged her to have him a few times but she just says she finds him a handful.
Nobody else that would help
That sounds tough. I remember when mine were little and early evening was touch and go as to whether we’d all make it frankly!
Can you tell us what strategies you’ve tried so you don’t get a whole load of suggestions that won’t work?
Sounds like you're really struggling but honestly you have a LITTLE BOY who is clearly desperate for help and love. Children do everything for attention and if he feels he's not getting attention he will play up. He's not evil in any way. And to be quite honest if you wish he was dead then there's no way you can be treating him fairly. Children need love and boundaries. Simple as that.
How much time do you spend with just him? Because your solutions at the moment seem to be to get rid of him. Why not spend quality time the two of you - send your daughter to your mums. He needs his mum. He is a little boy
Prefer not to say as my SIL is on here but if anybody wanted to PM me to find out, I'm in Scotland let's just say that!
No he doesn't start until August.
I'm hanging on in there thinking that the 6hr of school life should be enough to tire him so this behaviour ceases a wee bit but I honestly don't think it's going to.
It feels like right now it will never get better, no amount of Hv, behavioural specialist or SS seem to be able to do anything so I don't even know why I posted this
Do see your GP. They can refer you to all sorts of things you may not know about.
Be very honest about the 'evil' your DS does and how it makes you feel. Don't leave without help.
GP will do something for YOU op. Thats what I meant. Its doesn't have to be the norm for you to feel suicidal.
Doesn't matter if DS isnt your partners son - are your other 2 children your partners? If so can he not deal with them a lot more whilst you focus on yourself and DS for a bit?? I cant imagine having a partner I love, see every day and supposedly have other children with and yet feeling totally alone and suicidal?! He needs to step up.
I don't want to spend time with him, to be completely honest. I've seen him attempt to drown his sister, push her down the stairs, he used to press on her stomach to make her be sick. His behaviour absolutely disgusts me. I'm frankly sad that he is even my child.
Probably about once a week when I take him out of the house.
And I'm not judging you in any way m. Parenting is hard. But there are clearly REASONS why he is behaving like this.
There are lots of good parenting books out there - calm parents, happy kids is s good one. Have you read any?
Does he see his dad? How does your dp treat him?
My mum has never had either of my daughters so she won't start now.
I only feel suicidal because of him, if he wasn't here I would be a thousand times happier
He probably feels that you don't like him, too! You're neither of you in a good place!
Please, go to your GP... get the ball rolling.
No he has no contact with his dad, partner treats him fine, like his own but this is wearing him down too.
We are very close to splitting up because he wants to take the girls and keep them safe
I used to spend an hour every day with ds but it doesn't matter, as soon as we are back home this behaviour just starts again
Wow. That's a statement.
He clearly needs time investing in him?? I'm actually shocked at what you've said - hes obviously doing this for a reason of which you dont want to explore?? Youd rather he was just taken away? Invest time in him - it will help you and him and undoubtedly the rest of your family. Still no mention of your partner though?
Cross post. Ok theres a lot going in. Ask him and yourself - give it some time just you and DS and all the right resources.
I have tried to explore it, SS reckon he is just jealous.
I'd rather he was sent away because I'm done, two fucking years of this. My daughter has cuts and bruises from him throwing things at her or knocking her over.
How much 1-2-1 time does he get with you? How is your MH?
Honestly deciding to have another baby when you were already struggling with your eldest wasn’t a good idea. But I guess you now have to deal with it. When your DP is around leave him with your DD and baby and take your DS out. Spend quality one on one time with him. He’s trying to get your attention, that’s why he hits more when it’s just you around with the other kids, as your attention seems to be with the younger ones and probably has been since you were pregnant with your DD.
Your DS isn’t the problem here. I mean this in the kindest way, but you really need to sort your family life out and make an effort with him rather than calling him evil and foisting him on others.
I used to spend an hour every day with ds but it doesn't matter, as soon as we are back home this behaviour just starts agai
It sounds very much as if he is jealous. Possibly feels a bit pushed out. How do you treat him? Honestly? Be completely honest. Do you speak kindly to him? Do you use positive words to describe him? Do you praise his good behaviour? Do you cuddle him and tell him you love him? Do you give him jobs to do so he feels important? Do you get down on the floor and play with him?
Hi op. I would definitely go to the GP for some support x
You are having a really bad time op, must be so tough for you with so little support in your situation.
Is your son unmanageable all the time, or are there times when his behaviour is not too bad?
Your GP can do something to help you and can refer you and your son for some support.
You maybe need to look for some support through some parenting classes too. They often have some good advice and helpful strategies that just might offer a key to supporting you and your family to work through this.
You realise right that if SS take him away they will probably take your other kids too. The fact that they are involved here and taking an interest suggests your home life isn’t great.
Oh, OP! You're both demonising a 4 year old child. You must feel heart sick, scared and angry all at once.
It's OK for us to say "Ah you parented him wrong" or other such witty pieces of hindsight. But you need something you can Do NOW!
And all I can say is that you need professional help, your GP is the starting place. You MUST take that step and start the process of changing your lives.
Why don't you ask your Mum to have your other two children so you can spend some quality time with your son. Talk to him, play with him, laugh with him, build a better relationship with him. Make sure he knows he is loved and give him little ways of helping you be sure he knows you're a team and you rely on his help. Praise the good things he does, just show him that you see him. Gradually involve him with helping his siblings, just little things at first until you feel more confident in his behaviour. Hopefully you'll see a change.
It might not sound like I treat him nicely but I promise you I do! He is in no danger with me I'm just fed up.
Before nursery we usually do a floor jigsaw or just a normal one.
I do use positive words, I have a wipe clean ABC book that I use to help him with speech as he has none. I do tell him I love him, plenty of hugs available and 9/10 he does get a bed time story at night so a bit more time together there.
How do you react to him when he behaves like this? What are his punishments?
You definitely need to push for help,you could end up snapping and hurting him in anger
Sorry OP crossposted with you saying you wouldn't hurt him
My mum wont have my other kids no point even asking her, I already know she wont.
I probably have parented wrong, I probably still am but I'm just exhausted, mentally and physically. I have no energy left to deal with this shit
I have a 4 year old that is like this (to a much lesser extent). He snatches from his 1 year old brother, shouts in his face and pushes him around. At times I feel like I can’t take my eyes off him for a second because he’s always doing something. It’s full on and draining. I couldn’t imagine having a baby in the mix as well. It must be so difficult. Im honestly hoping he just grows out of it. I’ve tried the love bombing thing and he gets loads and loads of 1 on 1 attention but no significant improvement.
The main thing that helps I’ve found is trying to be out at soft pay/the park etc as much as possible as it diffuses the situation.
I really feel for you though, it’s an awful situation.
Sorry, cross post. I see you have tried the parenting classes route .
@Failureforaparent01 I don’t think there’s any such thing as parenting wrong unless that parent is being abusive.
How are you dealing with him?
Sorry op did you say he doesn't talk at all? Does he have SN?
Have you had any external help for that?
It sounds as though he is very frustrated, needs a lot of proper input, from professionals, as well as you!
Just seen your update. That’s the most frustrating thing I’ve found. I give so much positive time and energy to my son and he’s still a nightmare!!
I won't get into the ins and outs of parenting because at the moment this is beyond this.
Yes there probably is a reason for his behaviour,which can be emotional,mental or a disability.
Your first step is GP, go and ask for support. Explain his behaviours ,including lack of speech and anything else he struggles with. Bring a diary with you if you have time to make one. Film any extreme behaviours if safe to do so. They need to understand what is going on and that you both need help.
Your daughters need to be safe.
This is not your fault, but you are the only one that can get the ball rolling. Sadly, it also means you'll have to fight, and you're probably not in the best place for this right now. But you both need it. Good luck.
I promise you I wouldn't hurt my son, if I got to the point of being too angry I would send him to his room that is the extent of it
Pushed her head into our fence. Made her eat stones and smacked her when she refused.
I've seen him attempt to drown his sister, push her down the stairs, he used to press on her stomach to make her be sick
We are very close to splitting up because he wants to take the girls and keep them safe
This is utterly shocking. Way beyond just normal child behaviour. If an adult was doing these sort of things the girls would be taken away - but because it’s being done by another child they just have to put up with it? Sorry but I completely understand why their father wants to remove them for their own safety.
Are SS involved? Has there been any assessment of what issues your son might have? I’d be tempted to let your partner take the girls somewhere safe until your son’s behaviour is resolved or he is removed - by keeping them you’re putting them at risk.
I can’t even imagine what you’re going through .
What do you do when he hurts his sisters ?
Maybe when he starts school and starts doing it to other kids someone will take you seriously
He has no speech at all?
Does he qualify for any free nursery hours?
I think you're doing a good job in tricky circumstances. You definitely need to get the ball rolling with getting him assessed.
I have a wipe clean ABC book that I use to help him with speech as he has none
If he can’t talk at 5 then there are clearly undiagnosed SN. Your first port of call should be your GP.
If he is non-verbal at 4, there is obviously a SN element - is he / are you receiving support for that? It could be that being non-verbal frustrates him as he can’t express himself so he lashes out, or there could be other things going on affecting his behaviour. I would be very surprised if this wasn’t a major factor.
Why are you ignoring my questions? How can we help if you won’t discuss how you react to his behaviour?
Our reactions are hugely important when it comes to dealing with behaviours.
And echo what everyone else has said regards to sen.
Jellybean have a little compassion. OP is fairly obviously overwhelmed and your rather abrupt demands for information she may not want to give out aren't going to help!
Have you posted before about them sharing a bedroom? This sounds really familiar, if it is you I’m sorry things haven’t improved
Does he go to nursery or preschool? Sounds like he’s bored. At that age my DS was doing 3 full days at preschool and it still didn’t wear him out. A lot of kids his age will be doing mon to fri 8-6pm nursery. At least that way you could get a break from him and focus on your girls
I really hope they aren’t sharing a room still.
If no preschool or nursery then are you doing swimming twice a week, gymnastics, trampolining, football, bounce and roll etc...he should be out doing some sort of intensive exercise/interest class every morning at least. Maybe he’s not getting enough stimulation and is lashing out because of that. From tomorrow, take him to an activity every single day and see if that improves things. If it was me, I’d have him in swimming or gymnastics every morning and then at the park or softplay every afternoon
Sorry if it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm in the middle of doing dinner. Before I would do reward charts now I just shout and he gets sent to the stairs
They were sharing a room but then I put him in mine. We have now moved and he is back to having his own roon
It sounds like some of the posters on here want to blame the OP's parenting for her son's behaviour - you're implying she is somehow inadequate or abusive? If so, God forbid you should ever have a difficult child as she does!
Failureforaparent - as you know yourself, your child's behaviour is beyond the realm of normal jealous behaviour. You've done the right thing in that you've asked for help, in the strongest way you can! And yet you haven't received any and that's the terrible thing. I have no idea what's going on with your son but I can tell from your posts, it's not your fault. You are NOT a failure. You spend time with him and do everything you can to change the situation. I don't want to sit here armchair-diagnosing but there is something wrong! It is not your fault. Please don't feel like a failure. I just hope and pray you get the support you need, because your situation sounds so incredibly difficult and it is just terrifying for you to see your other child getting hurt.
That’s great. I’m sorry things are so hard. Does he see any professionals for his speech delay? Has he seen a child psychologist?
Reward charts plus nursery plus energetic exercises would maybe go a long way to solving your issues. How many friends of his own age does he play with weekly?
I hope this comes across as helpful and not rude.
Are you taking contraception to ensure you don’t have a 4th pregnancy? It seems like you are at your limit already.
Nobody’s blaming. The OP has posted asking for advice. We can all pat her on the back and say there there if you like but that ain’t gonna solve her problem is it? People are asking questions to get to the bottom of her daily routine so we can give her suggestions to change it. She’s at the point of having called SS so we don’t really need the namby pamby cries of “you’re not to blame” do we? That won’t help her. She’s still got to wake up and deal with him tomorrow. So how about we all just get on with some solid advice about what’s worked for us and how we see her daily routine could be fixed so to give the poor woman some hope and some actual change.
Dd was a contraception failure so wasn't planned, but yes I am on the injection despite having bled every day since I've had it, yes I'm on contraception
He does 3 hours at nursery, they may extend it by another 3 now that they've realised how hard things are
Have the nursery said anything to you about SEN? Being non verbal at his age is definitely cause for concern, and these issues may all be linked.
SS have been involved since Feb and still no help
I don't do much in the way of activities as I'm mindful of him needing to be at nursery for 12, so we would need to leave for swimming at 8am, get there for 9. Swim for an hour then have to head back.
I've been up with the baby since 4am I just don't think that is doable, I realise that this is my problem and I had these kids I need to parent them but every day is so God dam hard
I would strongly advise reading Mercury's child by Warwick Dyer and watching his videos and behavioural management techniques. I work with DC like your DS, his approach works.
A lot of the advice here suggests that reward charts are going to change the fact that her son is unable to speak and forces his sister to eat rocks?
His behaviour is shocking and reward charts are NOT going to fix it.
Also, you may think empathy is namby-pamby, but I happen not to.
Rather than reward charts and playdates, the OP needs professional help and she needs real life support - which so far, she is not getting.
Have you spoken to a health visitor or children's centre about your son? Are any of them aware he is not yet talking? - has any support been offered?
So my advice (as somebody who has raised multiple difficult boys) you need to look at him like a puppy. What would you do if he was a puppy? You would expect to have to run him round the park every day right? So daily routine is feed him breakfast and then out of the house until lunchtime at the park, swimming or softplay. Back for lunch then some arts/crafts or if the weather is nice back to a park. Several times a week sign him up for tumble tots, music group, Gymboree, football classes...then see if that solves your problem in a couple of weeks. If you have the money ring a nursery tomorrow and sign him up for 3 full days. Don you get free hours anyway? Use them!
You really can't afford to leave your son alone unsupervised with the girls for a minute. His behaviour is quite scary. He's so spiteful he could could cause serious injury. And if he's non verbal, how is he going to manage at school? He might attack the other children. I'd be banging at the gp's door and demanding help from SS. Don't let them fob you off, OP.
Sorry OP - you said that he says he doesn’t want your DD to have things but you also say he has no speech. How significant are his speech issues? At 5, that could indicate SN and you and he need support.
Have you spoken to an GP's/healthcare professionals about DS behaviour/lack of development etc. It does sound like he has some SEN needs. This could be frustration due to being unable to communicate properly, it could be jealousy as DS is no longer all your attention and this could all be heightened by an underlying need
Be adamant and pushy that your son gets referred on to specialist, be that awkward person that refuses to leave the doctors until something gets done. Scream and cry about how you feel and how suicidal you feel, anything until they refer DS on. This needs to be investigated further
You have my biggest sympathies OP
Remember OP has 2 younger children and pools often have ratios so taking them all swimming on her own will be difficult.
Mine are 5, 3 and 4 months and I can’t take them all swimming on my own.
He is under speech and language but again they just hand me leaflets which don't do much good imo.
They just say when speaking to him get down to his level, speak clearly, use small sentences and I do that but doesn't help
I agree with optimisticpessimist - could you book a GP appointment literally every week?
Every time turn up and say you need him assessed for SN.
I suspect one issue might be sheer frustration at not being able to communicate.
What has helped my own dcs with frustration is being outside and very active. I would take him to the park as often as you can. Twice a day (am and pm) would be nice so he can run around, throw stones (in the water, not at his sister!) etc...
I would avoid punishment. Again ime it doesn’t work and a clear NO and being taken away from whatever he is doing is usually plenty to get the message across.
Have you seen the GP regarding his langauge? Could he be referred to a paediatrician/speech and langauge therapist?
Sorry x post.
I would ask for a referral to a paediatrician. Clearly the SALT doesn’t work.
If he is non verbal then you need to fight to get him the help he clearly needs.
Wow cant believe this. He is non verbal at 5 - he clearly has SEN of some kind combined with the behaviour you've described. Honestly you need your partner to parent the girls for a bit so you can solely focus on your son. He needs help. You need to go to the doctors consistently. Be annoying. He needs to be helped.
I know the advice is meant kindly, but there's no way we could afford all those classes and I've only got one kid...
imEhat was your relationship with his fathwr like? Any d.v he may have witnessed?
Yes i agree about being on the back of the GP to DEMAND a referral.
The problem is, unless you make a huge fuss, it’s not going to happen.
Have you had his hearing checked? My DD has glue ear persistently and has a hearing impairment. Her behaviour is awful when her glue ear is bad but I was never able to connect the two together until her ears actually became blocked with wax and we got a hospital referral. It would also account for his speech delays.
I sympathise with you. My DD is difficult. Especially with her younger brother. I’m constantly supervising and telling off and can’t wait to drop her off at nursery. I also find that it doesn’t matter how much one on one time I give her. Makes no difference.
I’m also hoping when she starts school September will be better for all of us.
This might be a silly question, but have you asked him why he behaves this way? Have you also told him how it make you feel?
Does your ds always understand you? A lot of his behaviour could be frustration.
I’m not trying to not show compassion, but it’s important information, to use to try help rather than berating op about contraception like others have.
Can you try ignoring him when he behaves like this? Shower your dd with compassion etc, then try and explain to him after that he’s hurt her/ made you sad etc?
So is he deaf?
Just looking at his world for a minute - he's 4, abandoned by his father, mum has new partner and 2 new babies. That's a lot in 4 small years. He will know that hate him. W/o th all my kids I tell them that I love them just don't like their behaviour. You need to go the gp for both of you and your partner needs to look after the girls more.
You are in Scotland, your HV can support you and refer you if need be, use this resource before he starts school when it will be lost. Is he having an enhanced transition to school, what do nursery day about his behaviour when he is there?
OP it sounds like you are being badly failed by a lot of services right now.
I think you need to shout, really loudly, about this. Book a GP appointment and send an email to your SS and SALT officers. Tell them all, all the things you have told us here, and say that you are seriously concerned for your DDs safety and you need some additional support urgently before your DS causes harm.
I have a hunch that because he is so close to starting school there will be a lot of people waiting to see how school handle/refer him before acting, but that' s too long to wait for you.
Get sharp elbowed and start demanding some intervention.
My youngest had a severe speech delay, still does actually but he can actually talk now (he is 5). I will say that his behaviour before he could talk was like a feral animal. It was hard to stop him hurting himself and others. I tried taking him to sing and sign, he hated it and spent the sessions hiding under chairs, but I learnt some makaton and could teach him basic things and his behaviour improved a little once he had a means of communication. Now that he can talk, I'll hand on heart tell you he is the sweetest loveliest boy. Up until 3.5 years, it was hard to even like him, but now he is just lovely. He does have autism and other learning delays but he is no longer at all aggressive.
Traditional speech therapy hasn't ever helped much as he is too impulsive and has poor attention skills, but he had an intensive course of therapy for Specific Language Impairment and that is where he made a leap with speech (could have been a developmental coincidence, but he did seem to engage better).
I hope you can get some help. Hang in there. Dont feel like he might always be like this - I was scared I was raising a wrong'un but time has been a massive help. Hold on, as hard as it is. Just keep trying and keep on loving him, one day hopefully not too far off he might surprise you.
Sending you a virtual hug though. It is soul destroying and so lonely.
One of my nephews is like this. It wasn't his parents fault or his upbringing, he is a boy with a few psychiatric issues coupled with ASD that he was simply born with. We were afraid that he would become a rapist or murderer and everyone thought that he would be locked up for life once he would get older. It was really, really bad. Nothing worked. He just wanted to be with his mom 24/7 or the world would be punished. He was dangerous. He assaulted a family member so bad they couldn't walk for two weeks. He almost killed siblings or himself on purpose.
Our equivalent of the SS (not UK) helped get him the help that he needed. He now has a psychiatrist, psychologist and daily medicine and has become a normal-ish, relaxed child. He has a few different rules than his siblings because of his anger management training (is for example allowed to always walk away from visitors, family or other people at all times to calm down in a quiet room regardless if the moment is appropriate or not, like dinner or his birthday). He is fun to be around now and also tells us that he is finally happy. I would have never believed such a big change if I hadn't seen it myself.
OP, please try a child psychiatrist. If he iis like my nephew he needs help to feel normal.
Ok so he does have some speech but it is very limited, especially his sounds of words so bin becomes bim, one is ome which can make understanding him hard and obviously upsets him to a great deal.
I have tried reward charts with stickers, filling a pot with marbles and then when he has 3 he gets a treat, I've tried love bombing, I've tried ignoring it(this is the worst one to do ever, I ignored him doing something before and so he pushed the TV over and it smashed to bits! If I ignore it he will do something 10x worse) I've tried speaking calmly and explaining that hitting, spitting on her isn't nice(he appears not to give a shit, not sure if that's worth noting)
I've asked him how he feels when he is doing that behaviour(more to acknowledge his feelings etc but he always says he doesn't know why or that he just wants to)
I've made him draw pictures to describe how he is feeling but he usually just draws happy one so I don't think he understands that one as such.
I've come across like I'll palm my son off to anybody and right now for a bit of peace and not to have constant eyes in my head I probably would!! I'm exhausted,I don't get to sit down cause I constantly have to keep an eye on him especially if he and dd are outside.
I don't know what to do anymore
Sorry you are struggling and finding it tough. Have you posted before? Seems very familiar to another post a few months back and there was lots of good advice on there and some improvement. Go to GP and HV
No speech? At all? At his age that could well be a sign of ASD.
Sorry OP, sounds tough,I haven't had those same issues but similar, I have two children with ASD, my eldest has been quite a handful. It also sounds like you have some PND, I would suggest speaking to the GP and HV about both issues. Hope things get better OP.
We don't have a HV anymore. Had 4 in a year and all just as pointless as each other
I know that HV can b useless but to get help for this I agree that you need to get back into the system as it were. I agree with the posts that say you have to keep going back again and again until some one listens. One of my friends DD was very aggressive. Hitting children. Kicking her mother. Screaming and smashing up the house. She pushed and pushed and now has a diagnosis of Aspergers. We are not sure that’s correct, but at 5 it’s difficult to tell but at least she is in the system as it were. I worry for when he starts school. How is his behaviour when he is at nursery?
His behaviour is fine at nursery, this is his 3rd nursery and they've never noticed a problem, says he is a lovely little boy
You will definitely have a health visitor, why did you have 4 in one year, that is highly unusual. Do you move around a lot?
Who do you know who would take the girls for periods of time? At the moment you need to protect them and have time with your son.
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