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MY CHILD NEARLY KILLED HIS LITTLE BROTHER - HELP !!

(29 Posts)
Sarajandb Mon 04-Dec-17 10:02:10

My 8 year old has learning difficulties and we have been fighting the system for years. Hes been through CHAMS tested for ADHD and dyspexia. He was found to be border line for ADHD so they didn't diagnose him as it wasn't definitive and his anger and behavioural issues were put down to his learning difficulties of which he is 2/3 academic years behind. Everything is in place at school and hes now been refereed for Counselling. However an incident at the weekend took place, its not the 1st time but this is the worst time. My son kicked his younfer sibling who is 6 just turned in the privates over something petty and unnecessary as he cried out he didnt want to get in trouble so he put his hand over his nose and mouth but he couldn't breath !!! he didn't stop though he only got off when the youngest bit his finger ! As you can imagine hes not petrified. My oldest doesn't understand what hes done, the consequences what could have happened. He doesn't understand or see danger he has no concept of it. ie a fight at the top of the stairs he has no concept for the fact someone could end up at the bottom. His younger sibling is very bright and he resents that and has bitter jealously over it. I've spoke n to the school and they are sending an urgent referal letter back to the doctors to go back through CHAMS but this isn't a quick process. I need something now for him ! i can't watch them 24/7 i'm scared to death of leaving them together. Right now hes behaving as if nothing has happened played nice all day the next day but what happens next time he gets frustrated or angry i cant risk that happening again. Does anyone know of anything i can do any where that can help or even speed up his place on the waiting list. I'm worried to ring social services in case they deem him a danger and say they cant live together the idea of there involvement scares me. I just want to help him get the diagnosis he needs and get him the help he needs.

merrykate Mon 04-Dec-17 10:36:23

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. If your youngest ended up seriously hurt, would you wished you'd contacted social services? If you end up in hospital they will probably contact SS anyway. I'm not very knowledgeable about SS but I would've thought they'd be able to put some support in place.

Sarajandb Mon 04-Dec-17 10:41:24

I'm just scared to death they will take him away. He would be petrified. Hes a very emotional boy very self loathing, hes not confident, low self esteem etc despite the bubbly boy act he puts on. He reacts badly to change anything out of routine and normal practice.

whiskyowl Mon 04-Dec-17 10:46:25

Sometimes in life, things have to break before help is made available. The more you pretend things are OK, the more you show you're managing, the less likely it is that the help you need will be forthcoming. I think you need to involve every organisation you can think of- health worker/charity/social worker/police to get this sorted.

I am concerned about the emphasis in your post on your "bubbly" child, and not on the impact of this on your other child, who has just been through an incredibly traumatic experience. This is very, very serious behaviour and needs to be treated accordingly.

martellandginger Mon 04-Dec-17 10:51:52

You absolutely DO have to watch them both 24/7. Never leave them together. Your youngest must be petrified.

lunar1 Mon 04-Dec-17 10:54:49

Ring social services. You absolutely have to watch them 24/7 for now.

Cassimin Mon 04-Dec-17 10:55:55

I'm a foster carer and I think the last thing ss will want is to remove him.
It is hard enough to place children without diagnosis and near impossible to do it to children with difficulties.
I have a child with me who is diagnosed ADHD and asd and has the behaviours you describe.
They came aged 4 with no diagnosis and was finally diagnosed aged 9.
It is a terrible battle that parents have to get the support they need.
My fostering sw and child's sw were hopeless.
The best advise I can give is find a local support group. Speaking with parents can help. They can signpost you to getting training and inform you about all help that's available and how you can get the help you both need.
Good luck, it's a long battle.

Callamia Mon 04-Dec-17 10:59:25

I don’t think SS will remove a child based on this incident, but they may be able to offer you some support.

Siblings are a frequent victim when a child has difficulties that aren’t being adequately supported. Here, your older child wasn’t being malicious, but panicked with little insight into the possible consequences. It’s that recognition of consequences and behaviour-outcome associations that need to be worked on. A good psychologist should be able to help with this. It is important to supervise them until you think they’re safe together. It’s hard, but that’s why I think you need to ask for all the support you can get right now.

irvineoneohone Mon 04-Dec-17 11:10:25

I feel for you but you need to watch them 24/7 some how. Need to get more support with your 8 year old. Good luck.

Missymoomum Mon 04-Dec-17 11:12:00

Your situation sounds really difficult OP and I really feel for you. I work with school aged children and often work with families that are in situations like yours. In my county and neighbouring ones, there is a branch within children's social services called Early Help. They offer services ranging from family support workers to support groups etc. Families can self refer. It might be worth having a look to see if you have something similar in your area?

ItsLikeRainOnYourWeddingDay Mon 04-Dec-17 11:15:20

You need to have your youngest child seen by a medic. A hard kick to the testicles can cause life long issues.

SparklyUnicornTractors Mon 04-Dec-17 11:15:30

I also don't think based on my experience of ss that removal of your child would be an option even if you wanted it at this point. You do need urgent help and support.

The immediate thing to do is risk management. The most straightforward thing you can do is that one of the children needs to be with you at all times, and it may be easier for this to be your younger child who will be more able to understand and be flexible. If you go to the toilet or to have a shower, the child comes too and sits with a toy or an ipad by you. If you go to answer the phone or the door, the child comes too. I would also for the moment have a rule that they don't play together or spend time together so that conflicts that may get dangerous can't happen, and never let them be in a room together without you. If you need to leave the room then one of the children comes too. You may need to reinstall baby gates to make sure they can't get into each other's space in a moment when your back is turned.

I hope you get some input and support quickly today, this must be horribly distressing flowers

rightknockered Mon 04-Dec-17 11:16:21

Do you get any support from your partner?
Perhaps you could divide them between you, each child getting an individual parent's attention. That would make it easier to watch your 8 year old for things that trigger his distress. I agree, you absolutely can not leave them alone.

RagingFemininist Mon 04-Dec-17 11:18:21

I would also try and go private to have some sort of diagnosis.
I wouldn’t be surprised that there is something else than ADHD going in there.

And YY to have SS and CAMHS involved.

And to never leave your two dcs alone together.

roobrr Mon 04-Dec-17 11:19:10

When you say waiting list, what waiting list is he on? CAMHS?

RestingGrinchFace Mon 04-Dec-17 11:19:24

I really think that you need to separate them. Do you have a family member who could take one of them? Or maybe you and your OH could live separately while your work on your eldest's issues?

Sarajandb Mon 04-Dec-17 11:22:42

I got straight onto the school and emailed yesterday the head teacher and she replied. They have been made aware and the family support worker in school is speaking with the younger. She already works with the older and will address this in their sessions this week.
I have put things in place to ensure they are not left alone together.
I have sought help from the psychologist today private and will pay the private costs for him while i await the referral back to CHAMS for a re assessment. My partner works very long hours. and i don't have any parents a family around really to help.

LorelaiVictoriaGilmore Mon 04-Dec-17 11:25:38

I just wanted to offer sympathy although I'm not sure I can suggest what you could do about it.

My dsis has adhd (was diagnosed when she was 5) and there were some horrible incidents when we were younger which left me very frightened - I remember being locked in a bathroom when I was about 9 because she'd threatened me with a kitchen knife.

One thing I would say is that I always felt like my parents were on her side. I realise now that they weren't - they were just desperately worried about her and wanted me to understand that she wasn't in control of her actions a lot of the time. But at the time it felt like she could do anything she wanted and not get in trouble. Different rules applied to her, she got 100 times more attention than me - and I didn't understand why. I think it would have helped if they had just said 'what your sister has done is totally unacceptable and you are allowed to be frightened and angry' instead of constantly 'she has problems', 'you don't have problems', 'it's not her fault'...

But it's so difficult and I'm not sure there's a 'right' way of handling it. flowers, OP. I hope you get the help you need soon.

annielord Mon 04-Dec-17 11:37:55

hope you are okay

dataandspot Mon 04-Dec-17 11:38:22

I doubt social services would be interested.

When I had a similar thing happen I contacted them and they didn't even visit. They were totally uninterested.

GoodChristmasGuest Mon 04-Dec-17 11:38:41

I have dc with ADHD and none of them behave remotely like this....

Good luck. Your ds 1 does need help. You need help. You both absolutely deserve it. Don't be too scared to ask for it. And please. please protect your younger ds. I was the victim of my elder sister's violence my whole childhood. My mum felt helpless and did nothing. I an nc with my s, and truly scarred for life by the violence and bullying I experienced my whole life at home.

GoodChristmasGuest Mon 04-Dec-17 11:42:18

Lorelai - 100% totally this. Even now it's the same. Nothing has changed, even into adulthood, except now I can leave and disengage.

roobrr Mon 04-Dec-17 11:47:43

It baffles me why people continue to be re-reffered to CAMHS when they've seen the child and not diagnosed.

My son is ASD & ADHD but not violent in any way, he was seen and diagnosed by our local child development centre, over two appointments (and then the standard OT, SALT, ED psych, seeing him in school) does your son have involvement with those people already?

Sarajandb Mon 04-Dec-17 12:01:52

They didn't diagnose because he was 'borderline' and was also 6 when we went through the process and put all down to his learning difficulties which i never believed in the 1st place.
He has been referral for counselling and has a special education plan everything is in place for his learning via school. He sees a paediatrician also for toileting issues (which is behavioural not a health problem )
He wont be referred to a psychologist without a diagnosis which is my frustration so im going to pay private. School have done a referral to go back via chams which i find a joke having to do it all over again but its the only way to get the help he needs.

Sarajandb Mon 04-Dec-17 12:03:56

I certainly do not let my oldest get always with aggressive behaviour he is punished and knows its not tolerated he just doesn't learn from it or understand his consequences. My youngest knows it wont be tolerated and i talk about his feelings regular he knows his older sibling isn't favoured or let of and he is aware of the difficulties he has and knows whats right and wrong in that. He is a very clever boy is my youngest we are very close.

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