My sister delusional suspicious thinking? I am concerned

[jadelindsey2]

I am posting this on behalf of my little sister who I am concerned about. From about 13 she has had bad mood swings, in a day she will be up and down like a yo-yo, one minute shes ecstatic and full of optimism, next she's in bed crying. She also have periods around 3 times a year where she will go through a very manic stage or a very depressed stage (lasting for around 2 weeks) she is currently in the process of a possible bipolar diagnosis (not officially diagnosed yet, they're trying to work out if this is the case and has been refereed to a senior psych)

Despite this, she has only JUST started going to the doctors, a month or so a go after me protesting she needs to. She is 21 and has two children (3 and 1) with her ex partner who lives and works in a different country. She doesn't work but is able to support herself solely on the money he sends her and she lives in his property.

She announced to me yesterday she was not going to continue going to the doctors, when I asked why she said that she was concerned that it meant social services where going to take the kids away from her. I said they would not at all as they don't take children just because the mother has a mental health diagnosis. She then told me that she does not trust social services.

In her words she said to me: Social services are corrupt. They will take children for any reason, even if there is no reason. Then the sell them to paedophiles and dangerous people. I can't let that happen, they're going to take my children.

I became alarmed when she said this as its not a normal suspicion. She said she was reading about it on the internet and how she does not trust them because they will take them just because she doesn't have anyone but herself to protect them. She is now convinced that social services are coming to take her children and that they're corrupt. She is convinced they're coming Monday and that the doctor she had seen Wednesday has told them to come. She was hysterical down the one, crying her eyes out. She told me she needed to get away and needed to get away fast and that her children where in danger. She said she is going to book an appointment for her youngest to get a fast tracked passport and leave.

I live up north and she lives in the South. Today I travelled down and told her she needed to stop this. I called her doctors surgery and booked an emergency appointment but she refused to go because she said they where in on the plan and they're working together, she told me to trust no one. She then got it in to her head that I am working with the doctors and social services to take her kids away and do something bad with them. She demanded I get out of her house and said if I didn't, she would get in her car and leave.

I am down here until Sunday (I am staying with my auntie currently, my auntie is not her auntie as we have different dad's) She has no family down here besides a brother she does not talk to. Her dad lives in Australia, her mum lives up north with me and has pretty much washed her hands of us all as shes remarried and living a new life with new children.

I really don't know what I can do because she refuses to go to the doctors. I don't think she is going to harm herself or the kids but I am worried she is going to leave the country/town and end up being alone or in a dangerous situation not knowing where she is or what she is doing. She truly believes that everyone is against her and having delusional thoughts that everyone is plotting something over her.

I have her ex's number but not a lot he can do as he lives in Austria and works there pretty much every day every hour. He comes back for a few days a month to see the kids and they go up there sometimes but pretty much it. I don't know if I should get him involved seeing as they're not together anymore.

Just don't know whats wrong with her or what to do.

[QuestionARhino]

I'm really hoping someone can come along and be more helpful, what you describe sounds very similar to my experience of my Aunty who does have a diagnosis of bipolar disorder. Is it possible you can get her to A&E at all? The hospital we work at offer a CAMHS assessment for cases like this. She sounds like she desperately needs medical help though, but I was young when my Aunty's episodes escalated and I don't know how she ended up under the care of health professionals when she was also very suspicious of them.

[SealSong]

I'm a mental health professional, and while I would not diagnose someone over the internet, from what you say she does not sound well and is not able to think rationally. She may be experiencing delusions and paranoia.
If someone has sufficient concern re a loved one's mental health then they should call that person's GP, and that is what I suggest you do here, phone her GP and tell them exactly what you have said here.
The ironic thing is that her behaviour - by disengaging with services and considering taking the children abroad, when she is not mentally well, might cause services to get involved - which is what she is paranoid about. But at the least of it she needs a mental health assessment urgently, and if you speak to her GP they have the power to make that happen.
It's by no means the case that she would lose her children if mental health services become involved though....but that is what her paranoid thoughts are telling her.

[YouCantArgueWithStupid]

@QuestionARhino CAMHS stands for children and adolescents mental health services.

[SealSong]

That's true, YouCan't, but adults can also attend A&E for urgent mental health assessments from the adult mental health team.

[QuestionARhino]

@YouCantArgueWithStupid sorry yes I knew that, I predominantly work with children but parents who have attended with similar mental health episodes would be offered a mental health assessment. Apologies.

[ExplodedCloud]

Has she been reading some of the Charlie Gard supporters stuff? At least one 'sharer' I've seen is in dispute with social services and allegations of SS taking children for profit abound. If she's insecure and vulnerable and reading this stuff, its easy to see that it's persuasive.

[dangermouseisace]

I think there is a grain of truth to your sisters thinking- it's just got out of control.

In the past kids have been taken away from parents with MH problems. Some of these kids were then sexually abused. I personally, in real life, know of 2 different people from different families. There has been a lot in the news in recent years about historical sexual abuse cases. That is the past though. Vetting is much tighter now- extremely thorough. But social services is usually in the same sentence as the word 'abuse' so the mental link is already there for many people.

Then there are these people on the net who say their kids were taken away for no reason. Social services aren't going to disclose the reason as it breaches confidentiality. A parents 'no reason' could be hitting the child (didn't do me any harm), exposing child to domestic violence (my partner only beats me up, not the kids), letting the child have contact with paedophiles (but the 14 year old was begging for it!) and so on.

If there is a possibility your sister is going to be diagnosed with a severe mental illness she is going to be petrified. And if social services are going to do an assessment it would taken a particularly level headed individual to not be frightened they will take the kids away. It's an understandable reaction to be deeply worried about this, and I would controversially suggest that it isn't actually that irrational.

However, she won't know this as she's only heard 'bad' stories, not the good ones, where people had assessments and some family support was put in place. Or where there was an assessment, they checked the kids were ok, they were, and nothing happened.

If she's been looking after the kids so far on her own and they are generally ok she's nothing to worry about. As PP says, if she engages with services she has nothing to worry about. If she tries to skip the country they are going to worry she's got something to hide.

She's so young, and she just sounds like she's really scared. Sometimes when a person starts to get 'help' it can feel like it all starts spiralling out of control and a person can wish they'd never seen anyone/said anything. Because you are the one that, very rightly, encouraged her to go to the doctors you're getting the blame for the things that have been set into motion, and her fears about what might happen. Are you going to try and just see her, to have a chat? If you do I would avoid using the words 'paranoid' and 'delusional' around her worries as that would be seen to be dismissing them as a symptom of mental illness (it's probably a factor) rather than 'real' fears.

I hope it all goes ok and you can sort this situation out.

[NolongerAnxiousCarer]

Psychosis is not uncommon in bipolar, delusions often start with a very genuine fear/concern and then spiral in what to the person experiencing them feels is a completely logical progression. For example my husband thinks his food tastes funny, therefore it must be poision. I cooked it so I must be trying to poision him, therefore I must work for the government who are trying to kill him. In reality it could just taste funny because its a different brand. Once the delusion is there then it is very difficult/impossible to pursuade him otherwise/talk him out of it and any attempt to do so is further proof of me being involved in a government plot to kill him.

The general advise is not to directly oppose that persons beliefs and not to go along with them either. To tread a neutral line where you aknowledge that her fears and beliefs are very real to her but that you don't believe the same things that she does about the situation.

Definately speak to her GP, (and psychiatrist if she has one) they can't give you any confidential information, but they should listen to your concerns. They may be able to visit her at home if she won't attend appointments. Out of hours 111 can be helpful, they have sent an out of hours GP out to see myhusband when he has become unwell overnight. Getting past the " we can only speak to the person you are calling about" bit took me asking to speak to the person in charge, but once I explained the situation they were very helpful.

My advise would be to read up about bipolar and psychosis. //www.reacttoolkit.co.uk is a study looking at supporting the relatives of people with bipolar and psychosis. Half the participants get an online resource directory, the other half an online tool kit and support group. I have found it very useful. The Mind and Rethink websites are also very useful.

I would also advise you to look at the rethink info about nearest relative (a legal term under the mental health act. At present I susspect this would automatically be her eldest parent, but as it doesn't sound like she has much relationship with them it might be something worth looking at changing in the future. (I susspect now is not the right time as I think she would need to be the one changing it) But if you are her main support it could be very useful in the future.