advice about 17 year old's rights please

[RipeningApples]

I'll try to make this short. DD started self harming a year ago and took a couple of tiny overdoses. CAMHS assessed and refused any helpful intervention but offered inaccessible group therapy and said take it or leave it, nothing else.

I had dd referred to a consultant psychiatrist who recommended CBT which dd didn't connect with. Started fluoxetine December and well until the last few weeks. This is exam related as it was last year. She had a bit of a melt down on Wednesday but seemed fine Thursday. Evidently she took some cough medicine and anti-histamine Thursday lunchtime, seemed as right as rain on Thursday evening. She rang a helpline on Friday and they advised her to get checked out.

She presents to a&e adults who referred her to paeds who phoned me 3.5 hours later. Her bloods were fine. They called ss and said she'd be admitted overnight with a 1:1 nurse and CAMHS would do an emergency assessment the next morning.

I said if she needs an assessment it needed doing urgently tonight and she wanted to go home. She affirmed she wanted to go home. I noted that camhs hadn't given a toss previously and she had her own psychiatrist and we would be leaving. Then they could manage to get mh involved then and I gave them an hour. MH nurse turns up after 45 mins and spoke to dd and to me. I asked when we cd fo. Then she had to call CAMHS and I said fine providing I cd speak to them too. She said fine. 45 mins passed still no info. She was then on phone to CAMHS and I was told I couldn't speak to them. Lies and poor communication.

Told sister we would be leaving in ten minutes and was told we couldn't and I was interfering with my daughter's well being and creating a safeguarding issue and if we left they would call the police. They'd had three hours to raise that sort of comment and I'd asked several times what prevented us from leaving and didn't get an answer. The original Dr said they'd call ss if we left and I asked on what basis and didn't get an answer. I asked on what basis police would be called and was ignored. They all had another conflab and dd was allowed to leave about an hour later. Original Dr said if there was a way to get her assessed and home that was best for her and the NHS. But he didn't know he could sort an emergency assessment until I insisted and said it was a good thing.

She is not psychotic, wanted to leave and is loved and well cared for. She went to hosp thinking she'd get checks for the pills she took and be home by teatime.

On leaving the sister said you appreciate she was asked if she'd be willing to stay overnight and she said yes. I asked if she had been given the opportunity to say she didn't want to and there was awkward foot shifting amongst the three staff with us and dd affirmed it hadn't been out like that.

If there was no money to help her a year ago why is there money now for an unnecessary overnight stay, limited information, was told it was protocol and policy so I asked for the protocol and policy and was ignores.

DD was competent, there was no talk of the MH Act, she wanted to come home. So why the lack of clarity and por communication. What were/are her rights?

I'm waiting a call from CAMHS, will make an apt with her own psych and speak to GP this week. The response felt disproportionate and disrespectful and poorly communicated.

What exactly are one's rights in those circumstances. DD is obviously my priority and if this was a cry for help she'll get it but how staying overnight would have helped because CAMHS only work9-5 I fail to comprehend. She was not a suicide risk.

[kittybiscuits]

You are not best placed to know what the best care is for your daughter and it would be much better for your DD if you would co-operate. I know it's very frustrating when you need help and don't get it. This, unfortunately, is not unusual with CAMHS. You being stroppy and demanding will not help your daughter to get the best care.

[Becles]

This is obviously a rubbish time for you all and I hope that my post isn't judge or unhelpful:

CAMHS don't just work 9-5

The reason for admission / money now is that they were dealing with the immediate aftermath of an overdose which had different connotations to a child safety netted by GP and parents so not perceived as the same immediate risk.

There are no beds or money so all MH services are like air traffic control when it comes to managing patients.

By refusing to let them admit her for observation which would have then led to assessment and care planning for what next afterwards, you've actually pushed her further down the queue.

Go back to your GP and book a double appointment. Ask what they have done to follow up and if they agree with the information they have been getting from MH abut your daughter's care
The practice is the second most important advocate for your child even if they pretend otherwise. Ask for details of how they have followed up or reefer red or challenged a decision.

[RipeningApples]

I wasn't being stroppy. I came on her to find out what dd's rights are in these circumstances. CAMHS refused to help her 12 months ago. I will ensure my daughter receives the best care possible.

The hospital were not communicating or transparent yesterday. I'd like to know why and what her rights are and what reason the hospital could have had to try to stop us leaving. They had had 8 hours to get this sorted out and had done xilch until I arrived. Except arrange a overnight stay dd didn't want to have a CAMHS consultation today which I was happy to take her back for. CAMHS consultation may go ahead next week because she was assessed by a MH professional as not needing one today!

[Becles]

//Www.mind.org.uk

[RipeningApples]

It hasn't pushed her down a queue. They pushed her off it 9 months ago. GP says they are useless. She has a consultant psychiatrist. I agreed she cd have the CAMHS assessment today but not stay overnight. She wanted to come home and was assessed as well enough to.

[RipeningApples]

GP is very helpful and has been involved. My view is that if CAMHS could see her today after a hospital admission, they could have seen her today without one. Hospital were happy for her to go back to her own consultant psychiatrist. She has had care in place since CAMHS refused it.

[RipeningApples]

I'd be awfully grateful if somebody could tell me what dd's actual rights were/are please.

[RipeningApples]

Thank you for the MIND link. As DD had capacity it rather looks as though the threat to call the police if we left was coercive and inappropriate.

[Sellingyesterdaysnews]

I don't understand why you made such a fuss.. She had harmed herself and as such they followed protocol of medical clearance then psych assessment before home. It doesn't matter whether camhs had seen her last year, they wanted her to be seen after this event, which would usually be the next morning. Taking up everyone's time seems unfair on the staff. You can have input but you aren't really in charge in this situation.
They wanted to have her assessed for risk before going home.it sounds like you took up a lot of the staffs time in the evening ( same staff who would be dealing with paediatric medical emergencies)when there was already a reasonable plan in place . If she was deemed high risk, she would have been kept until formal assessment regardless...and sometimes it's difficult to know how high risk she is until the assessment takes place.

[Sellingyesterdaysnews]

They can keep someone in against their wishes if they are a danger/risk to themselves ..the police would bring them back to the hospital if they left.

[RipeningApples]

But she was assessed but not by CAMHS. If what you Sa is try why didn't they explain it. She wanted to come home.

She was assessed before we left. How does that take up more time than an overnight admission. If she was at risk /in danger then surely the assessment was required asap, not the following day.

[RipeningApples]

On what basis can they keep someone against their will if they are not at risk. It would have helped I we had been given clear and honest information. We were not the goalposts changed continuously.

[fastdaytears]

If she was at risk /in danger then surely the assessment was required asap, not the following day

Well not if she was kept in hospital overnight which is a safe and controlled environment.

[fastdaytears]

On what basis can they keep someone against their will if they are not at risk

I think I've missed something. They must have thought she was at risk, but you're saying they didn't. Did they tell you they didn't think she was?

[RipeningApples]

Anyway thanks for the help and support. Clearly I'm the most uncaring and crappest mother in the UK. For trying to ensure my dd has the best possible care and is well looked after and supported at all times.

[RipeningApples]

The assessment was to assess the risk. It therefore took place last night not this morning thus saving a bed. If she needed assessing surely do it quickly and avoid the overnight stay? Or is that too sensible and practical?

[Facefacts]

I can't answer your question but from my experience, the police and social services are unlikely to have seen what you did as unreasonable.
Camhs are useless in our area (and only work with under 16's anyhow. 16 is adult services.) We waited eight hours for an emergency assessment and they sent us home even though we needed urgent help. It didn't bring us higher up the "waiting list" for outpatient camhs having been to hospital. DC got worse and was sectioned. You are lucky to have found a private psychiatrist. As under 16 we couldn't find one locally who would take us on when we explained symptoms, just told us to go tthrough Camhs.
In essence, I think you did the right thing for your DD.

[fastdaytears]

The practical thing was to arrange an overnight stay based on them thinking your DD agreed to it. Clearly there's some dispute about what was actually said, but someone got the idea that your DD was ok to stay in, so they won't have considered in any detail what to do if she then wanted to be discharged.

You've had a really horrible time and you must be very worried, but not one has said you're crap or uncaring. That's not really fair is it?

[originalusernamefail]

The only way to keep her in hospital against her will, even if she IS at risk would be to put her under a section, that way if she had tried to leave she would be escorted back to the ward by police if she tried to leave. As regarding the assessment was this a MH or gen med? Only asking as maybe the team do a 'ward round' and she would have been assessed as part of that if she had stayed in hospital?

[PreAdvent13610]

Your daughter has the right to appropriate medical attention. As an inpatient she would have received that.
It is most unusual for a parent to prevent their child getting suitable treatment.
Your daughter has a right to medical confidentiality.

[RipeningApples]

Yes, the Dr thought she was low risk and supported and getting her assessed and out of the place was the best thing all round. So my view was get the assessment sorted then and it should have been arranged before I arrived instead of messing about and following a protocol for an under 16. She didn't need a CAMHS assessment to leave at 17. The overnight bit was because CAMHS wouldn't come out in the evening so I insisted on a MH assessment which was discussed with CAMHS on the phone. Then the Dr, the MH, the sister had a chat and let us come home. They only git their fingers out though because I said we would be leaving. Presumably because they knew that a forced stay was disproportionate and probably unfounded. I do not feel we had a great service.

[RipeningApples]

I'm sorry preadvent how do you think I prevented appropriate treatment. The only people who have ever done that are CAMHS. My DD cd have had the assessment Thi morning but she didn't need to stay in hospital for it.

[RipeningApples]

Thank you facedacts so sorry about your son.

[Facefacts]

You post just highlights the total inadequacy of the set up for dealing with urgent mental health needs. If you need help you need it now not at some time that is convenient to their set up. it is costing the health service much more in the long term.

[GingerAndTheBiscuits]

There are different paths to assessment for social care depending on whether a person is currently in hospital or discharged; I assume it may be the same for CAMHS in some areas