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Fucking MIND - what the hell do I do?(22 Posts)
I am so horribly lonely atm. Feel awful, not coping with nightmares and intrusive memories of my past. It's all I can do not to just sit down and weep constantly - although I do quite often. I can't cope with the memories of what's happened when I've tried to seek help and the "friends" who have turned on me/point bank rejected me for being depressed. I feel sort of scared to move a muscle in case anyone hurts me more.
Anyway, the only lead in ANYTHING at all to help has been looking to join a support group.
Why did that post?!
Anyway services won't help me - they just won't. (See posting history...) They are very poor round here. Private therapist "dumped" me, leaving me devastated with no-one I can talk to. She thinks I need serious help and wrote to my GP, but no matter how many times he refers me services say I'm not suitable. I feel like the most worthess waste of space.
So due to another thread on here thought I'd try a support group. So had a look - only seems to be MIND running them, not in this city but next one and covers this area (so have to travel to access it, which is another barrier, but anyway...) Well they won't tell me what groups there are until I've filled in/GP has filled in a referral form.
I've just looked at this form. It says We generally don’t work with people who have multiple complex needs. Our services are more suited to people who are feeling more well and are able to cope but are looking for support to enable them to move forward in their recovery. This is worrying - it means I have to hide and pretend even for them. More people where I have to lie about how I'm feeling.
Then it goes on to say how you meet with a worker to make a "Personal Partnership Plan" (they even abbreviate it to "PPP" - urghhh!) /recovery plan. It all seems very focussed and it appears they chuck you out the group after a while and "signpost" you to other organisations and activities (which I can't find any trace of...)
So, no "support group" style thing it seems. Nowhere I could just "be" with people who understand. Only monitored, goal-led type thing.
I am so horribly disappointed. I don't know where to turn... well, there isn't anywhere... I just don't know. It hurts so much. Im sorry.
Hello element, sorry to hear you're not having much luck with local support groups and services. I don't have anything else to suggest after your last thread but I'm here to listen if you need to talk.
element I'm so sorry to hear your therapy has ended.
I so get just wanting to be with people who "get" it - I don't want goals right now. I know that sounds very negative - but right now I don't give a fuck about getting better, I don't want to get better - because actually what they mean is "let people in, give them a chance and you can get shit all over again a few years down the line...".
Channel Elsa - "conceal, don't feel"!
My nice GP phoned me at home today (! it's a saturday) to say he's got hold of my old notes and he wants me to find a therapist within the UK and the practice will fund it. Nearest one is 200 miles away... and as I say - conceal, don't feel is where I'm at right now.
Please don't be sorry. It's OK for you (and any of us) to be like this.
A girl who lives near me was held on remand this week - she is classic BPD but has been labelled with substance abuse problems. I want to shake them and scream - she uses because she's battling her demons inside. Locking her up isn't going to change that.
I'm here to listen/chat too. x
Your nearest therapist is 200 miles away Swiss?! Is that a specialist one? Sorry for being nosey!
Aww element . Do you have a support worker? What about your local MH clinic, do they run any groups?
Hi, element honey. I'm so sorry to hear you're still struggling and even Mind can't help.
Wondering what the people with 'complex needs' who services won't help are meant to do...
People are complex.
Nothing much useful to say but ((hugs))
One thought. Have you tried Depression Alliance? I went to a group for years and still in touch with some ppl who became friends... despite the name, most people weren't just a bit depressed but had all kinds of issues, a lot some degree of past trauma...and it is the kind of being there with people who get it, mutual support you describe. Worth a try if there is one in your area.
tony that's awful there are too many people with MH problems in the criminal system. Sure being locked up will have helped her mental state Could she be using substances to blot out past trauma? Just labelling people with 'substance misuse' is so unhelpful.
at lack of support for so many of us.
Not much to say but... thank you all x
That's crap element, I remember your earlier threads.
I was going to suggest Depression Alliance too, they do have groups. Or one of the other specialised charities like Bi-Polar UK or Hearing Voices, depending on your condition. Mind have an online forum, Elefriends, but i totally get that you want to be able to actually talk to people that understand.
Mental Health services in this country are awful, so much more support is needed
I think the thing I'm finding hardest is that I've always known, and strived for, what really matters in life. As a child and teen I heard all the stories/wise words of older people saying that money wasn't that important, but people were, helping people, enjoying your life, etc etc.
So since I left home (at 18) I threw myself into living - I've travelled a fair bit (backpack an over the horizon for months style) for example. But despite always caring for people and valuing relationships, I'm so lonely, and have basically been taken advantge of loads and needed to toughen up. (The last point is a real dilemma for me - when I am tough and stick to my guns everyone thinks I'm being horribly unreasonable, even though I only do this over stuff I feel strongly about/really matters.)
I also knew what I wanted to do as a career from 18, but planned to get some life experience under my belt and "live life to the full" for a bit first - I literally had a list of countries I wanted to visit, with the plan of working interspersed with travel for a few years then uni. This fell through just before starting uni due to prior criminalisation when ill (was nursing. Actually had a place but got withdrawn with week to go).
So it makes me simultaneously stabby and weepy when people imply I've somehow not tried hard enough or not been bright enough - people who themselves were bumming around with no plan in their early 20's, or who are selfish to othes yet have called me "attention seeking" and selfish for being ill.
I feel really dizzy and sick now after writing that, I think I'm really not very well but there is literally no relief... the only relief I can imagine and long for is a lovely man who would cuddle me and understand (well, friends too, but to be really properly loved and able to finally make babies...!) And that is a completely wrong thing to want cos it means you're open to abuse, plus I can't actualy trust a man to get close, and professionals call it "searching for a rescuer" which is apparently wrong. Although I think on some level people do that becsue that is actually what they need. And I know people say "oh but it doesn't stop the mental illess" and so on but, for me, it would be a hell of a ray of light.
Must go before throw up x
Oh no, I've not been in here for a while, and just seen this and your other thread
OK - one option (and granted, it's a bit of a big leap, but stay with me!) would be to go back and study anyway: I know you said you have a record that stopped you with nursing, but why not have a look at some other area that might not be as strict over the DBS thing, and have a think about university? I'm not saying it will be easy - it won't - but you will have access to a wider range of support, through the university, and you will also have the chance to meet many more people, and be involved in a wide range of activities. Plus, there will be a student support service for MH, and unlike the NHS, they can't tell you to fuck off - so you will get the help you deserve. It will probably be hard work for the first little bit, but then, you probably won't look back. The only kind of offence that can stop you being taken on by a university is being a category one sex offender, and even then, it's all looked at on a case by case basis.
I work at a university, and we have a lot of students with MH and other issues, across the whole spectrum of possibilities, and I think we do a really good job of supporting them. In my own experience, we've never had a student that has MH issues fail to get their degree (and people sometimes do) - sometimes, it takes them an extra year or they need some extra support: but that's not the end of the world - after all, people with SEN need some extra support too. It's about levelling the playing field, not giving you an advantage, and it really might change your life and give you more opportunities. I'd recommend choosing a newer university- one of the former polys - because it's my experience that these post-92 institutions do a much better job of pastoral support in more complex cases (like yours seems to be) than the old universities, but pick somewhere you think you'd like to go. It's not too late for next year, either - you can get a place to study in 2016 as late as clearing (A level results day on, so August) or even September in some cases.
As for the man question: I think the problem is really, when we're lonely, we tend to make worse decisions - I know the shittest relationship I ever had was were it was two lonely people getting together, not because we were inherently compatible but more, "Hey, I'm lonely, you're lonely: match made in heaven!" So it can cloud the issue, because we get so desperate for someone to give us a hug that we don't care if they're Mr/Miss Right - just that they are Mr/Miss Right Now. And that's fine as long as it works, but once it stops, it actually ends up making things worse, and almost becomes some kind of self-fulfilling prophesy: I'm so shit, no-one wants to be with me, and I hate myself, so it's no surprise no-one else likes me, and anyway, I am shit at relationships etc etc So we just get taken advantage of because we're needy and available - which puts decent people off, but acts like catnip to a Persian on someone else who is also needy and available, or someone who is fundamentally bad and manipulative, and targets vulnerable people like this.
(I realise this isn't an answer for you: but I am trying to explain why professionals are saying that it's not the solution.) I recently told my psych that I wasn't involved with anyone at the moment (I haven't dated for years, but had a sort of substitute type thing going on) because I figured I needed to get well first, so I could find the right sort of person. He was dead chuffed with this, so I guess he sees it as an improvement I'm not suggesting you should do the same - but it might be worthwhile trying to investigate the men you are interested in/are interested in you, and assess whether they have problems of their own (no disrespect to anyone here - but you've got your own problems, as do I, and that takes a lot of emotional energy to deal with, and doesn't leave a lot of space for handling someone else: that's not being selfish, just acknowledging that there are only so many hours in a day, and that if you're not putting the emphasis on trying to hold things together for yourself, you risk getting more ill as a result) and how serious they are (so I would be fine, say, to be with someone with certain issues, but someone with addictions would be difficult for me, because I already struggle with debt and poor impulse control etc).
You then need to examine him against your benchmark of what a good guy looks like - it's not about having a check list of Mr Perfect, but more thinking about the kind of things that might be a problem. So personally, I wouldn't want to be with someone who is recently separated, as I think their head isn't in the right place and they are still grieving their ex, say.
If there are no red flags - you're good to go. But if there are things you are explaining away - "Oh yes, he's like this, BUT x y z" then run: because he's not the right guy for you but the loneliness is taking over: does that make sense? There's no reason you can't find someone great - but you need to make sure that you're not sabotaging your efforts, even whilst not meaning to.
PP have made some good suggestions about alternatives to MIND - I guess they must be very brief-intervention type in their groups: have you had a google for specific MH diagnosis sites/forums, and seen if there's anything specific for you (I think you said you have BPD, but excuse me if I've not remembered that correctly)? Also, might be worth pursuing private therapy again - I know it went horrible at the end with your previous therapist, but there will be someone out there more suitable for you. Inter-personal therapy might be worth looking into, or maybe something psycho-dynamic, as you said past events are dominating your thoughts. Also maybe schema therapy might be appropriate, depending on your history? Have a play on Google, and see who's in your area - plus, some people will use Skype - not ideal, I know, but worthwhile if you can't find the specialist you want.
Sorry for the long post, anyway, and sorry you're ill - hope you'll be feeling better soon: and remember, you're not attention seeking for being ill - you can't help it, and should be praised for being proactive enough to try to find help, despite all the obstacles placed in your way!
Hefzi has given great advice element. I am not as good with the advice but am a good listener, wished you lived nearer. If you ever find yourself in Liverpool ( john moores is a good old poly) would be happy to meet up.
hefzi It's really interesting that you say that, because part of me would like to go back and get a degree.
four years at uni and I failed to graduate...
I've been reluctant to push forward because I know my mental health won't always be quite right. On my good days I can visualise streams of number theorems, spew algorithms and explain quantum mechanics. On my bad days I'm unable to make coffee...
element I am "angry" and feel I've been cheated of life. I have fuck all to show for my life but a few anecdotes of adventures had in far flung places long ago. I should've had it all. MR2 as they say.
magiccursed Yes, it's for schema therapy and the majority seem to be located in London - which I am far from.
Tony might be worth thinking about Also, whatever work you did already towards your degree might be able to be counted - there's various criteria around this, but would be worth looking into if you think you might fancy it. And a lot of people completely off the intellectual have precisely the problems you mention - it's a lot more common than people think, particularly within universities: and if you pick the right place, people will understand and support you to achieve what you are capable of. It's not always the right choice for someone at all times - if you've got severe anxiety at the moment, say, and find it not only too difficult to go into class but also to talk to your lecturers, it's probably best to work on getting better before you go back to studies. But personality disorders, bipolar, depression, even psychosis - none of those are insurmountable, and if you get too sick to manage whilst you're studying, there's a process by which your studies can be put into "suspended animation", kind of, and you can return to the same point when you are well enough to return to study.
I don't know where you are, but if you're in the north, rather than the south, there are schema therapists up here: still, though, it can be a bugger to get about when you're not well, especially if you're reliant on public transport. I was really hopeful about schema therapy helping me - unfortunately, I had a therapist who seemed really good on first meeting: but then turned out to be chaotic - would never schedule an appointment, then would leave a voicemail saying she had an opening "today at 10" - rinse and repeat ad nauseam. Then she doubled her fees out of the blue - I felt like she saw her private practice as a cash cow, and just wanted to make appointments when she was skint It put me off bothering to go further afield, in all honesty, but if I ever move, I will try it again.
It's horrible, though, to feel you haven't had the life you ought to have: I know exactly what you mean, but I don't have a solution just yet - I do have though.
The thing that really gets me is the judgement and patronising attitude from others. My own regrets I can let go of to a certain degree, but it's a constant battle to not emotionally sink when others overtly or covertly belittle. I am aquainted with lots of well-meaning people who do this, sort of treat me like I'm not very bright, or a child, or worse - like I've just not tried.
I've not looked for a relationship since I was a teenager! Because I knew it would hold me back from travelling... though I did have relationships when they popped up; I wasn't looking (and haven't even last few years). I figured Mr. Right would show up (because people always said not to look and he'd come along! - another example of doing the right thing/taking advice and it getting me nowhere!) My last relationship I really thought was IT... until he turned out to have a drink problem and other issues... but honestly, it wasn't clear when we were just friends at the beginning. He'd even stopped drinking.
Cant imagine trusting anyone enough to be with. But at the same time I can't imagine anything will sort of 'hit the spot', as it were, unless I do get to experience a loving relationship one day.
Feel like foolish optimist who will only (continue to be) disappointed. About everything, reasons to live, not just relationships.
Oh also I am doing Open University. I know that's not going anywhere, but have had real trouble being places at set times... also not sure about funding brick uni. Tuition fees and living costs - I'd not be able to work AND study. Part time study is enough for now (oh that's another thing terrifying me... returning to work, somwhere, somehow...??)
Ha, sorry to sound negative. It helps to get it out tbh. Thanks x
ps. I'm labelled BPD, GP and myself think that's rubbish though, used to deny a service basically. Even the last person I saw from CMHT said my main presenting symptoms were depression-based (oh and ASD looking likely... argh need to get stuff sorted for referral...)
OU's good, element, don't knock it! The only disadvantage is that you don't get to meet as many people, of course - but I think it's well worthwhile. Are you just paying for it from an OU Student Account thingie (where you pay in installments) or are you using a loan? Depending on how many modules you are doing etc, you can also use a regular student loan for OU, though I'm not sure of the ins and outs of it - you get four years' funding in total from Student Finance, so if you've not had any yet, you're entitled to that plus maintenance. And for students with additional needs, there's funding from the LEA that's arranged separately, to help pay for additional costs associated with conditions - kind of like PIP, but for education.
That said, if you're not really up to going in regularly atm, OU is probably the best option for right now - but if you improve and decide you'd like to go somewhere bricks and mortar, there's a process for facilitating that etc and you get credit for the prior study, the same way as you do if you move the opposite way. What are you studying atm? I've done various modules with them- I just pick stuff that looks interesting and that I've not studied before, not for a qualification but because if I try to self-study, I lack the discipline to do it properly if I'm not accountable
Right - if you're GP is on your side, that's great news, as it ought to make things easier (in theory at least...). When you next go to see him/her, can you push to be referred to someone you've not seen before, for a full evaluation? They need to give you the right help, and the help you're entitled to. (Also- have you thought of contacting PALS about your previous experiences with MH services?) I know it's just another thing to fight for when you're feeling lousy, but you deserve to get better and to get the right treatment for your condition - I'm far from expert, but would assume, for example, the meds for depression would be totally different to BPD, just for starters. And don't give up on the optimism - I admire you for that: I am a total pessimist, and sometimes think that I will never fail to be disappointed because I expect to be. I realise you're not having any more luck, of course- but I think hanging on to hope is far more positive than always expecting the worst. I do it because it seems less disappointing that way - but I wonder if I've created a self-fulfilling prophecy sometimes...
I'm doing social sciences, so more for interest that employment...
Tbh the idea of such a huge student loan is totally off putting. Also not sure how much maintenance loan is, as mentioned couldn't cope with work as well, and not sure if I could even cope with full time study. I quite like the part time thing cos then there's a chance to volunteer and hopefully get back into work, as well as time to write and stuff. I've paid for this course - and the next - from money the DWP forced me to save by dithering over whether to allow me PIP or not (got a lump sum). I might overlap courses next year, with an Oct and a Feb start so do two in a year.
GP simply cannot refer me to ayone else. There is only the CMHT or primary care MH services - aka IAPT. IAPT say I am too complex and need more specialist help, CMHT say they don't offer it, plus a load of bullshit about me not engaging (this appears to be their excuse of choice as it pins the blame on the patient - when I first tried to access help as a teen and was excluded from all services, they used this excuse! Despite there being literally nothing to engage with!) I have tried for so long to get help from them, it drains me and makes me feel worse. The head of the CMHT seems to really dislike me.
I obviously can't usefully complain because it's all their word against mine, they twist things, and tell outright lies. I know I sound mad saying that, but they have lied to me and covered it up more than once - it's so petty and silly. The treat me like I am scum and any attempts to clarify anything are met with suspicion and sort of... them displaying dominance. There's some decent people working on the crisis team etc I've spoken to on occasion, but overall it's just like some kind of abusive relationship. I haven't given up lightly - trying to get helped has actually made things worse for me, espeically historically. Now it's just flogging a dead horse tbh.
Feel quite detached from it all now, if I think about it I despair. Am currently on codeine for severe period pain so that might be something to do with it!
Oh meant to add, need to finish list of supected ASD traits/organise it a bit, then GP is going to refer me for assessment. He knows nothing about ASD but said if I write the list he'll refer. There's no help for ASD adults round here, but a diagnosis would be good if I have it (still hoping I don't...)
Best of luck with the ASD assessment. I think there are some social clubs/events for people with ASD in your area (if I remember your area correctly from previous posts, you don't live too far from me). Might be worth looking into later down the line.
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