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Pros and Cons

(82 Posts)
Ambrosiacreamedrice Fri 18-Jan-13 15:59:18

Does anyone else make pro/con lists with regards to suicide? I have such an urge to end it all but I'm still rational, and I'm constantly making and updating a pro/con list, because I've convinced myself that if I can't get it to balance then I'm justified in dying. I talked about it a bit with my GP and we had an interesting discussion about why suicide was decriminalised, but it felt like I was watching myself chatting to him, rather than actually being engaged with the conversation.

I don't really understand how I can manage to be so detached that I can carry on existing, tidying up loose ends, whilst at the same time planning and planning. The pro side of the list is getting longer everyday and I don't think it will ever balance, so I guess that I have my answer. It's a strangely comforting thought, really.

Flojobunny Sat 19-Jan-13 22:21:23

You don't want to die.
You just don't want to live. There is a difference. That's because you want out of your current life. You aren't happy. You need to go and make yourself happy.

inneedofchocolate Sat 19-Jan-13 22:22:30

That sounds like a heck of a lot to have to do each day.

inneedofchocolate Sat 19-Jan-13 22:23:21

Do you feel stuck?

Flojobunny Sat 19-Jan-13 22:25:11

In trouble? With who? Like you said, you are 32 not 12.
I agree, ship out.
But not out of this world just out of the town or maybe out of the country. Have a holiday, put the cat in the cattery. If your mum is mentally well then tell her and she can make alternative arrangements for her care. Otherwise if she has dementia or something that really (and I mean really) prevents her from picking up the phone and doing this then you will have to.

Ambrosiacreamedrice Sat 19-Jan-13 22:26:00

I'm posting on here at the same time as making a PowerPoint for Monday, so that I can send it in to work then it won't cause problems. There isn't an end to the cycle you see. I have to remove myself because otherwise there isn't a way out.

Flojobunny Sat 19-Jan-13 22:29:30

Of course there's a way out. You ring work and take sick leave.
You say "mum I'm not coping I need a break" and you go, no backward glances. You throw the pros and cons list in the bin. You pack a small case. Include pen and paper and get working on what you (no one but you) needs to be happy.

Ambrosiacreamedrice Sat 19-Jan-13 22:29:43

If I'm not here my mum will either starve or my sister will have to pick up the slack. She has children and a 24 hour commitment to her work. If I die then I won't feel the guilt that she has had to do what I should do. I know she'll take my cats and dogs because she is an animal lover. I suspect she'd put my mum in a home, but my mum has always been adamant that isn't what she wants, so I couldn't do it. I can't live with guilt, but I can die because the dead don't feel anything.

Flojobunny Sat 19-Jan-13 22:30:08

Do you have friends?

Flojobunny Sat 19-Jan-13 22:32:53

You are making a lot of assumptions there. Yes your sister might take up the slack but like you said she couldn't do it in the long term but you think you should? Why?
There are many other options than a home. First things first is home help. Who is there while you work all day?

inneedofchocolate Sat 19-Jan-13 22:34:16

You are too worried about pleasing other people. It is and has taken far too much from you already. Suicide can seem like an attractive alternative to living your life with all the responsibilities that you have. When you are feeling as low as you do it is difficult to see how life can get any better but trust me, it can.

There are loads of support groups out there for carers who can provide counselling, respite care and people to talk to who are in similar positions.

Ambrosiacreamedrice Sat 19-Jan-13 22:39:07

No-one is. I get her up and wash/dress her and then I leave a flask and food next to her chair. I ring her at break/lunch/3:30 to check she is okay. When I get home I cook her tea and bathe her and put her to bed and have a chat about my day. When my other sister is ill I do this in between looking after her kids until her husband can get them.

My mother is my mother. Why wouldn't I care for her? She's my blood. I can't be alive and not do this. It would be utterly wrong to not look after her, just as it would be to not go to work and get my students through their exams. I know it would also be selfish and wrong to die, but selfish me wouldn't then have to live with the consequences.

Corygal Sat 19-Jan-13 22:40:37

You have the most difficult life - full time work, being a carer, not to mention the other stuff - absolutely GRIM.

Selfish you ain't - normal and desperate you are.

"I'm not depressed - it's me." No, You are depressed - it's your life that's doing it. It's fixable, but the trouble is you're working so hard to tread water that you've got no energy to swim. What's wrong with your mother?

Corygal Sat 19-Jan-13 22:47:00

The other thing to remember is that memory is selective - when you're depressed, you can't remember feeling any other way, then you convince yourself you're a hopeless failure incapable of normality or enjoyment.

That's not right - it's just the depression talking - talk to us if you like, at least we're a break from the grinding mental pain you're in.

You don't deserve to be in this pain - I've no doubt you'd disagree, but you don't. Life is terribly hard, terribly hard, sometimes, and you must be very tired.

Flojobunny Sat 19-Jan-13 22:52:14

Everyone is different, and everyone has a different breaking point.
My mum is ill, I don't look after her. Would you tell me I am wrong not to give up my life to look after her because she's blood? Do you think I should give up every spare minute to be with her?
Or do you think I should let other relatives and home help, help out so everyone is happy?

HollaAtMeBaby Sat 19-Jan-13 23:01:21

Ambrosiacreamedrice (great name, I love that stuff), you do have a brain chemistry problem. Your feelings of detachment are one symptom and feeling suicidal/losing the will to live is another - you're clearly intelligent enough to see that there's no evolutionary advantage to wanting to die, so humans with healthy brains are not meant to feel like that. It's an illness. Depression doesn't always mean staying in bed and not showering for weeks.

You don't actually know that the dead don't feel guilt. Nobody knows what's on the other side. Your life does sound very tiring/drudgy and not much fun at the moment, but things will change. Even if all you do is keep on keeping on, your mum and cat will eventually pass away (sorry) and your sister's children will get bigger and not need babysitting. Hang in there.

Ambrosiacreamedrice Sat 19-Jan-13 23:03:07

But other relatives don't help out. They have lives. She, my animals and my nieces and nephews are my life. It will never change. It hasn't in 32 years so I don't see why it ever would. I don't really mind it, I don't feel the need for a rest, and just don't see why I should take oxygen that could be used for somebody productive who wants to live and make a contribution to society.

Ambrosiacreamedrice Sat 19-Jan-13 23:04:47

I'm sorry, but the thought of not having either my mum or my cat is truly terrifying, so another reason to go soon.

HollaAtMeBaby Sat 19-Jan-13 23:11:31

Ah, there's plenty of oxygen for all of us and if you love your mum and cat that much, they definitely need to be on the "reasons to stick around" list.

Is your GP also your mum's GP? Can you ask (again) for some additional home help so you get a break occasionally? What would you do with an hour, a day, a week all to yourself?

Ambrosiacreamedrice Sat 19-Jan-13 23:12:39

But dead is dead. It's an eternity to be alone.

If I had more free time I'd catch up on work.

Flojobunny Sat 19-Jan-13 23:17:31

You sound like an intelligent woman. As far as I am aware there is no shortage of oxygen so your argument is somewhat flawed.
They are your life because you made them your life and the thought of change terrifies you. In which case, take baby steps, think of one small thing that would help.
I am in the same boat, except I have next week off sick to work out what I need to do to help make my life worth living.
I was off last week too and so far this is what I have done.
I have a prescription for ADs, have been to the chemist yet because I am not depressed just fed up of life.
I have a referral to the mental health team, will take about 4 wks to come through.
I have enrolled on a 'self esteem and assertiveness' course, this I think will be very beneficial in helping me see I am important too.
Maybe you are low on self esteem too?

Ambrosiacreamedrice Sat 19-Jan-13 23:24:54

All of this implies that there is something wrong with feeling like this, with knowing that you are a mistake. It isn't illegal to do what I'm planning. If someone has no quality of life it is a humane thing to allow them to die. The thought of living without my animals or my mother is truly appalling, and another con.

I'm not a scientist but I believe that the world is overpopulated so it is unlikely that I'd be a loss.

Flojobunny Sat 19-Jan-13 23:33:21

A loss? One minute you can't leave your mum for a wkend, the next you say you wouldn't be a loss to anyone?
Please realise that what you are saying has no sense to it. The world is not short of oxygen. It might appear over populated in your area, but I'm sure you've never thought about taking pot shots at the neighbours to resolve this so why do you think its rational to kill yourself to resolve this?

Ambrosiacreamedrice Sat 19-Jan-13 23:42:40

It does make sense. I don't deny that it will be difficult for those left behind. My point is that I won't have to face this. I am being selfish by choosing to end an unhappy existence and leave it for others to sort out. I understand this. At this point I do not care. I cannot just walk away and remain alive because:

1) I just couldn't do it. I'm unable to do it.
2) I would feel crippling guilt.
3) It's my house so where would I go?
4) I would be alone.
5) I would then have no purpose at all so be wanting to die anyway.

I don't suppose this has to make sense to anyone else. I know I'm not mad, I know I'm not irrational. I'm the most sensible person I know. My death will not solve these issues for those remaining. I get that. It will solve it for me. It will give me an end. I'm selfish and I'm taking it.

It has been an interesting discussion, and confirms the fact that this is not something to be mentioned in RL except to my GP who shares with me a belief that sometimes these things are just meant to be.

TheSecondComing Sat 19-Jan-13 23:55:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HollaAtMeBaby Sat 19-Jan-13 23:56:54

I think you have badly misunderstood your GP. Even if he agreed with you, he would be breaking all sorts of rules and guidelines by saying so, including the fundamental required commitment to respecting human life.

Please go back to see him, or a different GP, say that you are suicidal, and ask for support with your caring responsibilities, anti-depressants, and a referral to a psychotherapist. You are not well and need help.


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