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When suicide is the only positive.

(89 Posts)
ThisKikiIsMarvellous Thu 17-Jan-13 00:23:32

New username because I don't want to be identified right now.
Don't want to be me, if I'm quite honest.

I just want to die. There are no negatives to me dying, only positives. I have no reasons to live.

I have such severe social phobia/anxiety that I can't step foot outside/use the phone/be even slightly normal. I am a drain and a waste of space.

Self harmed for so long it feels completely normal, tried it tonight but it's not enough.

Surely there comes a time when you're so useless and pointless that suicide is genuinely better for everyone?

cafecito Sun 20-Jan-13 01:56:42

evem if things seems completely out of reach, unattainable, even if you think youve completely f*d it all up- what did you once see yourself being like or doing in the future?

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Sun 20-Jan-13 03:20:49

Thank you all, again, for replying to me.

The meds I'm on at the minute are the best I've been on. I have no side effects, and 90% of the time, I can get up when I wake up. I know there are countless ADs to try, but I hate taking meds as it is, and I've had some truly awful ones. I'm very reluctant to change them, and my doctor doesn't think there's any need to either. I've seen a psychiatrist quite recently too, who didn't change my medication.

My weight is kind of a touchy subject. I have a goal weight, which I have not yet attained. I have a small frame and I look fat at a "normal" weight. I don't really believe in the BMI scale, as the weight it claims is "normal" for me, is very heavy.
I don't think that I exercise obsessively. I definitely need to exercise daily, and I feel anxious if I don't do it. I always feel the need to 'make it up' over the next couple of days, so it evens out over the week. That's probably just another way that my anxiety manifests though.

I don't have career aspirations. I've been unemployed for so long that no-one is ever going to hire me to do anything meaningful. All the things that I would like to do, are probably unattainable. I'd really rather not think about them, when I know that they won't happen.
I don't really have any hobbies. Nothing really interests me anymore, which I know makes me sound incredibly boring. I just don't enjoy things very much.

God, I'm annoying myself with all this. I can only imagine how irritating and frustrating I am for everyone else. I wish I was someone completely different.

BoerWarKids Sun 20-Jan-13 06:35:50

ThisKiki, how are you this morning, did you get any sleep?

I just wanted to say that I can relate to so much that you've said. This quote really helped me. I'll try to write more later x

"You are not just here to fill space or be a background character in someone else's movie. Consider this: nothing would be the same if you did not exist. Every place you have ever been and everyone you have ever spoken to would be different without you. We are all connected, and we are all affected by the decisions and even the existence of those around us." David Niven.

mancshell Sun 20-Jan-13 11:08:24

please dont hurt yourself things always get better

cafecito Sun 20-Jan-13 11:45:02

Kiki, you sound very much like me, keep a log of what exercise I do and so on in my head and if I miss a couple days get really really grumpy and then do 3, 4, 5 hours in a day. But this is actually to the detriment of my course and social life, as I have been known to pass up normal things in order to 'make it up'. It's not a healthy mindset. A healthy mindset (which I have 80% of the time on this subject) is to do it when I have time to do it, to rule it rather than it ruling me. I used to be very under- and my target weight made me very heavy like a heffalump, I am small framed and I thought my 'target' was at least a stone over what it should be. Now I can see that no, the only reason I felt like that was because I had such anxiety about other stuff that there was this uncomfortableness at being that normal size, not having the jutting bones etc etc- I risk oversharing probably but now I can see that actually, that weight was a low weight. A BMI of 20 or 21 is a low weight, honestly. I think it can sometimes feel stifling if you have to gain weight to get to that point and then don't give time for that weight to redistriute, which can take about a year.

I know it might be painful to think about but you indicate that you do have things you once wanted to do- please could you share some of them with us?

cafecito Sun 20-Jan-13 11:49:58

Boer- that quote is absolutely true! My sister really doesn't like me (she's much younger, a half sister) and I said to her - do you realise, if I hadn't been born you would never exist, we'd have never moved here, etc etc. That shut her up momentarily! But it's true, every day you touch lives - you mould experiences- every day. The world has been and is a better place because of you Kiki even if you can't see it from your darkness.

Xenia Sun 20-Jan-13 15:14:42

So the drugs are working better than any before and most days you can get up. That's better than it might be.

There are lots of things for hobbies and for work you can do without ever leaving the house but it's a question of wanting to do them.

You could even write a book about your feelings. There are various good self publishing sites even on line - a 17 year old girl who was featured in this week's Times has gone terribly well with her book on there.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Sun 20-Jan-13 17:04:05

Thank you all for the responses.

I think that David Niven quote is very true. When I apply it to myself though, I feel quite guilty. I feel like I inflict myself upon others. I do think that it would be more positive were I not here, because my presence is a drain on others. I know that's because I hate myself, and I view everything about me negatively, but I just can't comprehend that the effect I have, might be positive.

I don't think I'm ruled by exercise at all. This is possibly because I don't have many other constraints on my time; I have no social life, I don't work, etc. I feel flabby if I do go a day without it, but I think that's natural. When my BMI was 20, I both looked and felt fat. I've just worked out that my current BMI is 17.8, and I think that's supportive of the fact that the BMI scale just doesn't work for everyone. It's a good general indication, but I neither look nor feel underweight. If anything, I'm on the larger side.

I have no real interest in hobbies, a lot of the problem is that I lack the energy/desire to find any. I have a habit of getting really obsessively interested in something for a short period of time, then I get bored of it and stop. Whenever I've tried to 'pick up' previous hobbies, I just find them so draining and frustrating that I end up throwing them away.
I don't think I'd want to write a book, the risk of someone I knew/know reading it would be terrifying. My written English isn't to the standard I would want it to be either. Other than my incessant whinging, I don't really have a great deal to say.
I do think it's a good idea, though I'd be more inclined to try writing fiction (if I had a bit more of an imagination) and not attempt any kind of publishing.

I know how that paragraph reads, and I'm not intentionally trying to be difficult. I know that I need to put the effort in to get anything out, and my lack of energy/desire isn't an excuse. Perhaps it's because I don't deserve to do nice things, or find things I enjoy. Perhaps it's just because I'm inherently boring and don't have interests.

cafecito Sun 20-Jan-13 17:26:30

I suspect you're very tiny but cannot see it, and rather, do not feel it. Do you hate yourself to the point where you like to feel aches after a workout or dislike feeling full after a meal? Do you get scared of the concept of being happy because actually you don't think you deserve it?

I'm also a stopper and starter, unfortunately- it's just how I can be, completely utterly obsessed with something one minute and then I drop it and don't revisit it. But while you're there- you're great at it aren't you? I imagine you're really rather bright which can be a curse, you get bored too easily and are perfectionistic and very hard on yourself.

You'd like to be a writer, or have contemplated it? It's not surprising that's not far off the ground because it's very very hard but by no means is it impossible. I love to write and have often thought I should write a book (non fiction though) but it's just the getting started that is so difficult. I have a friend from school she was very troubled herself dropped out started a course, dropped out, moved back in with parents, lives somewhere very isolated, but she has slowly but surely started writing a book. She sent me some parts of it maybe 3 or 4 years ago- I was astounded at her talent. She has now written a trilogy- but again she is hesitant about publication (hasn't even tried). It has filled her with a real sense of accomplishment though, she is very very gifted and it's a solitary thing she can do without anyone else being there, which suits her very much. Have you ever thought about courses etc? Do you live in a city?

I think that through your self hatred you are selling yourself short. You are filled with potential. Don't throw it away. Gradually open the door to it, even if it's only 20 mins here, 20 mins there.

cafecito Sun 20-Jan-13 17:27:22

have you ever tried CBT?

Xenia Sun 20-Jan-13 18:37:00

You just type. I wrote 30 books. It's not hard but then I'm virtually always happy and think I'm good at things (however deluded that might be). The issue here is not being happy really, that is what saps everything. I wake up with 1000 things I would love to do every day and only get a few done and I very very lucky that is so.

So the current pills seem to be helping a bit, don't they? If you don't want to leave the house or work what about helping others? Too many people spend ages just looking into themselves which is actually a morally dubious selfish act. What about thinking how today can I help someone else and forget about self entirely, just try to give give give (and that might be helping someone with words you write on line, charitable stuff on websites etc) and you would find how much of value you have to give. You could even help those who are fat (which is about 60% of the UK population) get thinner as it sounds like it's one of your many expert areas. You could even set that up as a business on line giving advice. Loads of people want an on line diet mentor of some sort.

I suppose we just get back to the differences between those who are mentally well and brimming with enthusiasm and those who feel sad and fed up all the time and it's just a huge effort even to get dressed, never mind plan a load of schemes.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Sun 20-Jan-13 20:14:01

I always exercise to the point of aching, mainly because I thought that was what you were meant to do. I do hate feeling full, but I think a lot of people dislike that heavy, bloated feeling. I don't really understand what being happy would entail, but I know I don't deserve it. I am genuinely not tiny, and I doubt I ever will be. My goal weight is just one that means I will be relatively slim.

I don't want to be a writer. I just thought that Xenia's idea was a good one, though more as a hobby than a career path. I would like to go back to Uni, but while I'm this anxious, it's not an option as I don't feel able to leave the house. Distance learning is expensive, and would require me to be a lot more invested in it than I currently have the energy for. I live in quite a rural area.

I've had some CBT before. It was only for a few sessions (as with every other type of counselling/therapy I've tried), because I was terrible at it. It made me very panicked and paranoid, I couldn't vocalise most of what I thought and I was just, in general, useless at it. I never told the practitioner how bad it made me feel, but she must have picked up on it because she stopped the sessions.

Xenia, I do feel that the pills are working much better than any others I've tried, as I have no side effects with them. I have a massive distrust of medication, but I take them as I'm instructed to.

It's not that I don't want to work. I do. I am incredibly restricted in what I could do, when I can't cope with leaving the house or having a proper conversation with someone. I crumble under any form of pressure, and I would let down whoever was fool enough to employ me. However, I completely agree that I am selfish. I'm not going to go into whether or not I would be a helpful influence to people, because I'm just going to sound self-pitying and even more self-centred than I already do.

I don't think I am remotely qualified to help overweight people, when I'm not slim myself. I would be very scared of doing more harm than good if I tried to help anyone. That aside, it would be exhausting and I don't think I could maintain the social side of it for longer than a week or so.

You have so many ideas, I don't know how you manage to come up with them. I find it very overwhelming, but I agree that is the difference between someone who is mentally well and someone who isn't.

Thank you both again for the responses. I'm incredibly grateful for the time you've spent, even if I'm not very good at showing it.
I'm trying to be very objective and not bleat on about how I feel, but my mood is dipping a lot, and I think that talking so much isn't helping.

I'm going to stop posting, before I get completely emotional and despairing and pathetic (even though I know that's what my OP was, I feel like I should shut up now), because that will just be embarrassing and awkward for people to deal with. I am so, so grateful for how kind you have all been, and how patient. I know just how frustrating and hard to deal with I am.

There is such a wealth of advice here that I really hope can help someone else if they need it, and I'm going to print-screen the thread to re-read. Thank you all and I'm sorry for being a drain.

chipmonkey Sun 20-Jan-13 22:01:36

Kiki, you're not a drain. You seriously aren't. And don't ever think it's not worth while posting here. I think when we're in the depths of despair, it's easy to think that we're alone in the way we think and the way we are but there is always, always someone else who's felt the same.
We're here if you need us.

cafecito Sun 20-Jan-13 22:47:10

Kiki you are not a drain. If you want to talk, we are here. I have been in your shoes and know it's impossible to find a way out when you're there. I also know how young you are and how intelligent and full of potential you are. You're great at writing too. I worry about hw you manage your anxiety but as long as you stay okay and don't let it get the better of you, then there are worse ways. You say you want to go to back to uni- then maybe make some plans towards that. Honestly I do understand where you're coming from. I always wanted to go back to uni and study something else and I thought I never could, had no relevant ualifications etc etc. The pressure of having to be around these people as well- eurgh- I didn;t want to leave the tiny insular world of my office. But I did and I am a brighter happier person for it. I think, when you already feel as low as you do, there comes a time when you have to say to yourself 'what have I got to lose?' if you already hate your situation, try changing it- try new things - you will surprise yourself. I don't want to sound patronising. I absolutely understand you and I wish I could wave a magic wand. But please please make a list of things you'd like to do within the next year or couple of years, and slowly slowly we can make it happen. You are very special, very precious - we are bron into the world not into a town, not into a family unit- you are one person in the world who makes it so and you are absolutely entitled to be here and absolutely should try and do what you want while you're here.

I suspect your approach to your size manifests a little bit from a. wanting to punish yourself, you don't believe you deserve nice things and nice feelings, you would rather work out and feel pain than wrap up ina cosy blanket eating chocolates in front of a movie- and b. because it's easier to feel ''fat'' than all the rest of what you are really feeling underneath that, which is an absolutely heartbreaking emotional turmoil- of course it's easier to 'feel' fat (I'm not saying you have said this - but I think some of your feelings are similar to this)

CBT I think would be very helpful to you at some point in the future- challenging your automatic thoughts - NATs (everybody hates me, I am a waste of space, I'm a drain.. ) etc and asking you to come up with evidence and then rebut that.

ie. my NATs are usually something like - I'm such a failure (evidence - something like... I did not get an A* in maths, rebut that - well actually I have achieved x, y, z) or my boss hates me (evidence- he shouted rebuttal- it wasn't about you, it was about a meeting, he doesn't hate you he liked you that's why he made you permanent, promoted, said all the nice things) and so on and so on. It can be done written down- I found that more helpful than with a therapist when it felt false and silly as of course you know what they want you to say and you do not believe it yourself. If you write it down - NAT, evidence, challenge- in columns, by yourself, it might help you.

anyway I will stop rambling. Please please please if you do one thing- take this with you. You do not need to apologise so much, you apologise for existing. Nobody should have to say sorry for even existing. You WILL find a way forward, a crack of light in the darkness, I promise you.

ChicaT Thu 24-Jan-13 01:26:13

Hello again, this will be a quick post - I should be asleep but wanted to check how you were. Have you considered meditation? There are some really accessible easy to use meditation apps out there. I've found that they really help calm my mind, and make my mind stronger when faced with depression. I'm currently using Headspace which is a little programme of 10-minute guided meditations, the idea is to do one a day (though I forget sometimes, don't beat yourself up if you do too!). Very gentle voice and only warmth and guidance, it's very easy. Another one are the guided meditations from Andrew Johnson - he has a whole set which address different issues from social phobia to inspiring confidence to getting fit. He has an incredibly soothing voice. You don't have to do anything - even just put the app on while you're in bed about to fall asleep. It can only make you feel better, and I promise it doesn't hurt! It's also something you can easily do in your own home where you feel safe. I also recommend the website Mindapples. A couple of friends of mine with direct experience in serious mental health issues have been heavily involved in it - it's a great organization and a very simple concept. Check out their website for a better explanation than I can give while sleepy! And finally have you thought about trying reflexology or Bach flower remedies? My reflexologist prescribes the flower remedies and I found the anti-anxiety ones quite helpful. Reflexology is very gentle and calming and the therapists are terribly caring. And there are many who will come to you so again you can stay where you feel safe. Take care and remember you can always come here if you need support and a bit of love, any time.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Fri 25-Jan-13 22:02:34

I wasn't going to post again, but I feel far too guilty for not thanking people who've posted since I last did. So, thank you for taking the time to be so helpful. I really appreciate how thoughtful and kind you all are.

ChicaT, I've tried meditation in the past, but never 'properly'. It's always just been from reading on websites how to do it, then doing it myself. I must have been doing it wrong, because I found it very distressing. I need to keep my mind occupied, because so many of the thoughts I have are intrusive and overwhelming. The fact that you need to effectively wipe your mind to meditate meant that the intrusive (anxious/hateful) thoughts were too much for me to deal with.
I don't have access to anything with apps, but I'll have a look for mp3 versions.

I use Rescue Remedy sometimes. I always take it when I have to go outside, though that's quite rare. I don't feel like it does much physically, but it doesn't hinder, so I keep on taking it. I've not had anything like reflexology, mostly because I can't bear people touching me.

I don't feel like it would be right of me to keep on posting, but I felt horribly rude for not saying thank you.

aufaniae Sun 27-Jan-13 21:08:20

Kiki, you are not a drain. Mumsnet is a support site (among the chit chat!), and many of us come here when we need support of one kind and another.

Lovely of you to say thank you, but please do feel you can come here to talk whenever you need to.

Hope you're feeling well today xx

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Mon 28-Jan-13 01:32:22

Thank you.

I don't think it's right that I keep on posting because the only way out of this, is dying. I don't have the energy for anything else. I'm exhausted and empty, and I've had enough.

I realise how pathetic that sounds, and I'm sorry for it. I don't think I should inflict myself on people, especially when there's nothing anyone can do.

aufaniae Mon 28-Jan-13 07:53:07

Kiki one of my best friends felt as low as you do a few years ago. I won't go into the detail but she very nearly did kill herself.

She is a different person today, only a few years later. She's happy, enjoying life.

One of the things that has helped is getting her meds right. She says it felt so clear to her at the time that everyone would be better off without her, but looking back it's absolutely clear this was the illness making her think that.

It may seem like pie in the sky now, but I promise you the only way out is not dying. You are unwell, and that is the illness talking. There is a future where you are happy and well and look back on feeling like this as a dark period in your life which is firmly in tha past!

Please, talk to your doctor about how you are feeling. It can't hurt.

And please, keep talking to us!

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Mon 28-Jan-13 15:04:30

Thank you for replying.

I can't see things changing. This is pretty much how they've always been.

I'm seeing my GP next week. I don't know how much I can tell her though. Last time I tried, she told me to speak to the OT. I don't trust the OT, and I can't possibly talk to her about SH/suicidal stuff.
I'm scared if I say too much to the GP, she'll put me in hospital. I've admitted to being suicidal to her, but never dared to admit that I have a plan and the means to carry it out.

I'm trying to write about this as unemotionally as I can, and it's not working. My head is alternating between panic, screaming at me, and a horrible emptiness. Sorry, I know I sound utterly pathetic.

aufaniae Mon 28-Jan-13 15:16:21

You don't sound pathetic at all. You sound like someone experiencing an awful illness.

Why are you scared to go into hospital? My friend did (as a voluntary patient. She was basically given the choice of admitting herself or being sectioned). I have no idea if hospital itself helped or not, but the care she received overall definitely helped. I know she's much better now.

What do you have to lose by admitting how you are feeling?

GooseyLoosey Mon 28-Jan-13 15:17:40

ThisKiki, I too suffer from anxiety, although not I think to the same degree as you (at least not at the moment).

My greatest fear is dying and having some terrible illness. Like you, the anxiety has at times worn me down to the point when death seems almost a preferable alternative.

However, last time around I woke up to the absurdity of this. How can being dead possibly be better than the fear of death? If I am at the point of welcoming death, there is no basis on which to fear it. I found that this line of reasoning helped at lot when the anxiety was at its worst.

I would also say, that when I am at my worst, I see someone a lot more frequently than every couple of months. I found it helped just to know that someone was looking out for me.

Dying is not a way out.

ThisKikiIsMarvellous Mon 28-Jan-13 15:51:50

The idea of hospital terrifies me. Partly because of the stigma of having it on my medical records, partly because of how social it is. I couldn't cope with being around people all the time. As stupid as it sounds, I don't think I could manage to shower/wear make-up every day.
The other thing is that it would take away what control I have, over things like food/SH/general routines. I have a really intense need to be in control.

Goosey, I understand about the fear of dying. I go through phases when it terrifies me, then I return to the default of wanting to die. Completely nonsensical. I do get very worried over a lot of health issues, but it's more about the effects of the disease, than dying itself for me.

I usually see the OT once a month. I haven't seen her since November, because she was busy over Christmas and new year. To be honest, seeing her doesn't really help yet (I've only seen her a handful of times), so I don't feel like I need to see her more frequently. I know my GP wouldn't mind seeing me more often, but I feel awful for using up her time this much as it is.

Thank you both for replying, I'm sorry for being so useless.

GooseyLoosey Tue 29-Jan-13 09:06:54

How are you feeling this morning?

lizba Tue 29-Jan-13 11:07:41

Morning Thiskiki, how are you feeling today? I hope you've had a better night

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