Have mental health problems so no fertility treatment

[Keziahhopes]

Hi
worst fears realised today. Turned up at fertility centre (nhs cycle, pct agreed funding, taken 11 months to get to this stage) for injection training and today is the first day injetions for ICSI (male factors)and the clinic says "sorry, at the meeting this morning we decided due to your gp writing to us and phoning the consultant we can't treat you." Failed welfare check.
- emoticon I want not available!!

If my dh not have antibody problems we could conceive naturally. Am mid 30's after years of ttc naturally.

I don't deserve children everyone agreed. No one to support me. I work with children, help run charity residential events - but clinic said that didn't count, it was gp. Changing gp not help, as (a) I would need them to know me for at least a year before they would be allowed to overrule this gp and this gp sent copies of letters from my psychiatrists - including the one that I am complaining about at official level (told to). Lost advocate, as he changed jobs.

They worried about how I would cope if the treatment failed, but no support offered for me to be childless. No treatment on NHS ever been given apart from 5 sessions when I was told I was suitable for that help.


Can't express how I feel. Hurting so mcuh.

[madmouse]

nowt else to say

[sausagerolemodel]

I am absolutely shocked by this. I'm so sorry.

[Keziahhopes]

The more I fight, the more medical people are turning against me sadly. Every friend in real life has at least one child, everyone at work in my area has at least one, 2 people are pregnant currently.

I wouldn't mind if NHS actually did something to help me, to suggest I have problems - but they don't.

Already spoken to manager at clinic and she said gp can, despite referring me for tests and therefore possible treatment can stop pct funding. Even if pay 6,000 privately he can stop me - and has done. This is the gp who takes weeks to do anything, yet wrote one letter, read a letter and phoned a consultant!

Manager said nothing can do. Apart from wait for a few years of no help from nhs, no issues (I have depression and suffer from PTSD - not my choice to have bad things happen to me)... guess it is gp's way of reducing his budget. Seeing another gp no option, as this actiion already happened. Couldn't even react apart from few tears at clinic as didn't want them to think I couldn't cope.

They said the gp has said I ahve said I felt suicidal in past, therefore I don't get treatment, ie people like me with tough lives in past (not of own choosing, I didn't get drunk and commit illegal acts, I didn't take drugs and do things I regret - my past is what happened as a child and other things) don't deserve children. Because it is not fair on a toddler if I feel suicidal or low apparently.

Not coping, except can't say that publically. So will go to work tomorrow ... already the tears have gone, feel heavy.

[blackwell]

That's horrible. I hope somehow you manage to conceive naturally and prove them wrong

[blackwell]

Oh, and that's confirmed another thing to me - never tell the doctors ANYTHING about your mental health, they will use it against you one day.

[Keziahhopes]

Yes, blackwell I can see your point of view. However I got told off for not asking for help early enough - saying that not got help, but ....

Can't conceive naturally, stopped contraceptive 6 years ago and the only treatment for antibody treatment for males is ICSI. Having tried for 6 years, lots and lots .... ... ...

Husband says, will see gp when get appointment etc - but it ignores the fact I have to wait at least 3 months even if anything happens. But how can it? Gp blocked it, welfare check failed, can't suddenly change that.

I don't deserve children - yet no one can help me deal with that. If I say anything then they will say that I am not coping, further reason for me not to have treatment.

Why, oh why ....

[MaimAndKilloki]

:( That's awful, so sorry to hear that. I really hope they will reconsider! You do deserve children, depression is evil, but it's not the end of the world. Keep fighting sweetheart, we're right here behind you!

[GetDownYouWillFall]

Oh keziah!! Just read this and am utterly heart-broken for you

How dare they deny you your chance for a child?

Depression does not make you a bad mother. I have suffered severe depression but it did not stop me loving or caring for my DD with the greatest affection.

You must fight this. It is discrimination.

Your depression is probably partly due to the fact you are childless anyway. If you had a much longed for child, the depression would probably not be as bad.

So sorry

[gottogetoutmore]

This is awful and so very very wrong.

If you do decide to fight you may find the Equality and Human Rights commision helpful.

www.equalityhumanrights.com
Advice line 08456046610

Liberty are also a renowned human rights organisation.

www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk
Advice line 08451232307

My thoughts are with you x

[madmouse]

Sorry itsonlyajob but the Human Rights act will not be much use here (it's complicated but I don't want to write an essay on it)


I do second the excellent advice to get legal advice from Mind.

[DooinMeCleanin]

How awful. I so angry and sad on your behalf. I do hope that you find the strength to fight this. I cannot believe that this is legal or just. The word of one GP should not be enough to stop you getting fertility treament.

[Lulumaam]

that's just awful

can you not appeal?

how awful of the clinic to not even phone you?

there must be an appeals process.. have you tried PALS?

[Deux]

Have you tried the HFEA and asked them what the situation is?

Something else, log on to fertility friends message board.

There is a section here for 'Ask a lawyer' plus there must be others who have been in the same situation and may be able to help you build a case.

Try to find out if you are allowed access to the paperwork submitted by your GP. Surely you must be able to see what he has written? Can you rebut it?

Good luck, this is terrible and seems so unjust as the welfare of a child is not taken ito consideration pre-conception if conception can occur naturally.

I feel cross for you.

[Deux]

I have just found the following from the HFEA website. It's a cut and paste.

If they refuse treatment they have to follow this process. See point b)


8.17
If treatment is refused, the centre should explain, in writing, to the patient (and their partner if they have one):
a) why treatment has been refused
b) any circumstances that may enable the centre to reconsider its decision
c) any remaining options, and
d) opportunities for obtaining appropriate counselling.


More info here.

[kizzie]

Hi keziah - just wanted to say Im so sorry and also to urge you to follow up with the contacts given for Mind and Liberty.

At least they will be able to give you the true picture re. where you stand legally.

Thinking of you x

[kizzie]

Sorry ignore bit about Liberty - but definately Mind. Also agree that the Fertility Friends website very good for info
x

[Keziahhopes]

bit overwhelmed with advice. Not one person in real life has phoned or come round and then I see all these posts.

I have had a fantastic mind advocate due to appalling comments and defamation etc by a mental health worker htis year but he moved jobs and .... we complained, one in 7 bits of complaint upheld (several well actual lots of lies in what dr's said in complaint but can't fight that anymore.) Lost lots, gained nothing. Partly complaining meant gp very very defensive (not that it involved him!!

Husband saw gp as emergency today, he would not support us. This was today - jhe said he would ust send a negative psychiatrists letter, one from an appointmnet that I was honest in. Yet he spoken to Care's manager and the consultant already in negative ways.

If gp or anyone was concerned about me why not offer me a psychologist, or therapy or treatment - NEVER had any on nhs. Just tablets!!

Sorry, brain all mush. Got house full of fertility drugs, in fridge too staring at me.

[birdietimestwo]

Dear Keziah

I?m so sorry this is happening to you, it is completely outrageous. I have read the HFEA guidance and have the following observations (sorry for the legal-speak, I am a lawyer). Please bear in mind I am not an expert in this area of law but there are some basic principles of fairness which apply across the board.

If you (understandably) get information overload then don't worry about reading the rest of this - I was just so bloody angry I had to write it ! There are just two main points - get a copy of your written assessment, and get legal advice (try barprobono.org.uk)

If you are up for a longer read then :

1. The centre must ?assess? you and your partner before providing treatment. It doesn?t say so but you should have access to a copy of this assessment (which must be ?documented? i.e. in writing). I am shocked that you were turned away at the door of the clinic after being given the impression that treatment would go ahead. You must get a copy of the assessment if you don?t already have one. They must keep written records as follows :
   
   In all cases, the centre should record in the patient?s medical records the information it has considered during the assessment. If further information has been sought or discussion has taken place, the record should reflect the views of those consulted in reaching the decision and the views of the patient (and their partner if they have one).
   
   
   
2. The centre must use that assessment to decide whether there is a risk of ?significant? harm or neglect to any child. The implication is that other information, or someone else?s opinion that was not part of the assessment, cannot be relied on to refuse you treatment. On the other hand they must take into account the views of everyone involved in your treatment (which obviously includes your GP).
   
   
3. ?Factors to take account of during the assessment process? (paragraph 8.1 of the guidance) provide that the centre should consider factors which are ?likely to cause a risk of significant harm? to the child. In other words, the risk must be more than just a possible risk, it has to be a likely risk, and the harm must be significant. There is no definition of ?significant?. However, factor (a) of paragraph 8.1 refers to ? past or current circumstances that may lead to [the child] experiencing serious physical or psychological harm? it then goes on to give examples. It is fair to assume that ?serious physical or psychological harm? is the same thing as ?significant harm?.
   
   
4. Paragraph 8.10 (b) is , I suspect, the provision under which you are being refused treatment :
   
   past or current circumstances that are likely to lead to an inability to care throughout childhood for any child who may be born, or that are already seriously impairing the care of any existing child of the family, for example:
   i) mental or physical conditions
   ii) drug or alcohol abuse
   iii) medical history, where the medical history indicates that any child who may be born is likely to suffer from a serious medical condition, or
   iv) circumstances that the centre considers likely to cause serious harm to any child mentioned above.
   
   
   
5. A history of depression could well fall within paragraph 8.10 (b) (i). It would be a ?past circumstance? of a ?mental condition?. However, in order to be proper reason to refuse you treatment, your depression must be ?likely to lead to an inability to care throughout childhood for any child who may be born?. In other words, to justify refusing you treatment the clinic must be satisfied, on the basis of your assessment, that your past (and possibly current) depression is likely to mean that you will not be able to care for your child throughout childhood. This strikes me as quite a big hurdle for them to jump. It?s not enough for them to say that they?re a bit worried about your ability to cope ? they must have decided that you are likely not to be able to care for your child ?throughout childhood?.
   
   
6. If your depression is associated with trouble conceiving a child (circumstantial depression), as opposed to more deep-seated, longer term depression (endogenous depression), then your assessment should say so. It strikes me as totally irrational to refuse you fertility treatment because you are finding fertility problems difficult to cope with. If they are concerned about more long standing depression then they need to spell out why this is likely to lead to significant harm to your child.
   
   
7. In short, you need to get a copy of your written assessment, if you don?t already have one. Then, you can decide what to do next. You may be able to take, or at least threaten, legal action. Once you have a copy of the assessment (and if your ?appeal? does not succeed) I suggest that you get in touch with the Bar Pro Bono unit, which provides free legal advice by fully qualified, experienced barristers. I am not an expert in this area of law but they will hopefully find you someone who can help.
   
   Go to www.barprobono.org.uk
   
   Best of luck.

[Keziahhopes]

Deux - ta for that list. Well they can refuse me counselling due to mental health and just medicate me which is all I am worth to them --- but you stated that if I am refused FT they have to offer appopriate counselling. Wonder whom with, how long for, timings .

Birdie - am avid reader, teach 11-18yr olds, mark essays all the time. School know everything and want me!!

Re: 4. Paragraph 8.10 (b) refused treatment : past or current circumstances that are likely to lead to an inability to care throughout childhood for any child who may be born, or that are already seriously impairing the care of any existing child of the family, for example:

i) mental or physical conditions 2 of us in this . Husband is WELL in ALL WAYS. I have had bouts of depression - with no support from CMHT despite requests (budget, I am not attention seeking etc).. I comply with medication. But I may get depressed again - never in such a way need hospital treatment. So: is this enough to say I am a significant risk. If so I need to lose my job too, not spend time with ohter people's children, avoid public places where they are.

ii) drug or alcohol abuse NEVER
iii) medical history, where the medical history indicates that any child who may be born is likely to suffer from a serious medical condition, NEVER NO ( well I wear hearing aids, not genetic - is this saying deaf people are to be discriminated against?


iv) circumstances that the centre considers likely to cause serious harm to any child mentioned above.

So - Centre can stop it because I was honest about the asthma, part of immune system working (yet they earn 1.0000s due to immunology and mental health issue.


Arrgghhhh ........... Gp not even asking to see me. So that is my support. Got needle in hand for inection and told STOP. But no one offering support who stopping it and that is not an issue to them. So are adults of less concern and their welfare just children.


I know there are mums here with depression, they have children. But I not allowed to

[Keziahhopes]

Ok - dh seen gp again ... now waiting for gp to contact us with his decision. Have an appointment near end of this week anyway so if not before then....

But this gp has known throughout all the testing, got copies of all test results. Why now? Covering his back?

Yes, I have a mental health history - yes, I have had "depression" - do I now, who knows as no one told me. Take ADs to prevent it. But, if I was pregnant would they force an abortion on me, if pregnant naturally? Or take the baby away?

--- head full of negative thoughts. And spent weekend at an event with lots of families