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5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

(972 Posts)
BigChocFrenzy Thu 04-Oct-18 23:45:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting


16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.


. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

- WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
- HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
- SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
- EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

- FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice.
e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

- BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

- NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

- Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

- CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

BigChocFrenzy Sun 30-Dec-18 14:54:42

*@harriethoyle, @Farontothemaddingcrowd* and anyone else who lost us

As I posted 7 Dec

🎺🎺 We have a NEW 5:2 / IF Thread 82 🎺🎺

Come join us there and Happy New Year ! 😀

harriethoyle Tue 11-Dec-18 14:39:42

Hi guys - sorry for radio silence. Am working like an absolute bugger and hoping the light at the end of the tunnel isn't in fact an oncoming train! grin

Am on FD today - currently on 195 after lunch and planning weight watchers ready meal and broc for tea. Am going to engage properly after Friday, I promise!

Farontothemaddingcrowd Mon 10-Dec-18 18:37:00

I'm on 500 today but still hungry. Keep me motivated!

BigChocFrenzy Fri 07-Dec-18 23:39:22

🎺🎺 We have a NEW 5:2 / IF Thread 82 🎺🎺

BigChocFrenzy Fri 07-Dec-18 23:31:11

Well done, Borris

Borris Fri 07-Dec-18 21:50:21

Fd done on 500. I definitely find non consecutive FDs harder than 650 cal b2bs. Back on b2b mon and Tuesday. But then will be a bit more random with Christmas parties etc over the next couple of weeks.

Well done to all the fasters. You have the moral high ground faron. And cheddar I might join you for a mini on Sunday. No dd this weekend and it’s definitely easier when she’s not here (although obv I prefer weekends when she’s with me!!!)

BigChocFrenzy Fri 07-Dec-18 21:38:07

cheddar MiniFDs are 800-1000 cals
Same rules as FDs, i.e. no junk, no booze

Well done on your FD, Faron
Put that dickwit out of your mind - you've got veg in your frig with a higher IQ
Now relax and look forward to you weekend

Farontothemaddingcrowd Fri 07-Dec-18 20:59:11

Yes I was fasting today, hence the small amount of food. Kitchen is closed after a small vegetable cous cous and an apple.

Managed to resist comfort eating after a nasty man swore at me and drove aggressively towards me because I crossed at a zebra crossing.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar Fri 07-Dec-18 20:52:55

Quick post - yesterday’s FD ended on 580 - not too bad! Thinking of chucking in a mini on Sunday - are minis 1000 calories or less? Or are they 800?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck Fri 07-Dec-18 20:40:23

Thanks bcf I adore Greek yogurt (full fat though) I just have to restrain myself and weigh out a portion or I'd demolish the tub blush

Thanks for the new thread too flowers

BigChocFrenzy Fri 07-Dec-18 19:52:52

New thread coming up soon
As several of you requested, the title will be about retraining consumption on NFDs

BigChocFrenzy Fri 07-Dec-18 19:46:50

That yoghurt is good healthy stop stuff

BigChocFrenzy Fri 07-Dec-18 19:46:07

Well done on your FD, 43 That yoghurt is good healthy stop

and well done on resisting the poo crumby work chocs, faron
Were you fasting too ?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck Fri 07-Dec-18 18:04:00

Well done borris and faron that doesn't sound like very much food though faron? But go resisting the chocs grin

Fd finished here on 556 as I NEEDED some Greek yogurt after my dinner.... mmmmm... cup of tea once ds in bed and that's it.

Hope everyone else is having a good day

Farontothemaddingcrowd Fri 07-Dec-18 16:32:34

Good luck to everyone else fasting today.
I resisted the work chocs today with the mantra of 'poo crumbs'. I've had a small portion of veg couscous and an apple. That's probably it for the day.

BigChocFrenzy Fri 07-Dec-18 13:41:00

Good luck, Borris Sounds like your FD is going well so far

Borris Fri 07-Dec-18 13:01:20

Also fasting today. Had a slim a soup, weight watchers slice of bread and a no cal jelly.

BigChocFrenzy Fri 07-Dec-18 09:45:56

Well done, Harriet on your SV, a 3-year-low milestone

Good luck, emcla and any other Friday fasters !

emcla Fri 07-Dec-18 09:01:19

I’m fasting today. Good luck to all Friday fasters.

harriethoyle Fri 07-Dec-18 08:25:30

Argh, home fasts are so much harder than work fasts! Good luck!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck Fri 07-Dec-18 08:23:55

excellent work harriet enjoy your meal tonight smile

Glad you had a nice meal quacking and yes my nfd went well. FD today and rumbly belly already, I'm at home today so need to stay out of the kitchen and keep busy!!!

harriethoyle Fri 07-Dec-18 08:23:15

Omfg... just checked my mfp history and I am the lightest I have been since DECEMBER 2015! wine

harriethoyle Fri 07-Dec-18 08:20:48

Am into the next kilo down! Only by 100g and it won't survive tonight's boozy meal but I'll take it! grin

quackingduck222 Fri 07-Dec-18 07:57:09

Boys - I’m sorry to hear that. I hope it passes quickly for you. Look after yourself.

My meal was quite nice thanks, ate too much. But I didn’t have my tea as I had absolutely no room left, that’s a first for me.

Emcla - I think multivitamins are good. We take a concoction of different ones in this house, just to make sure we’re getting what we need.
The ones that really have made a difference for me is multivitamin with iron before taking those I used to wake up with bad brusing on my legs especially after a FD. Read online about using iron and it stopped almost immediately.

Snail - That sounds lovely, bet you will get some spectacular views from there.

Fleabag- That’s really strange with your scales, definitely loosing inches then. I would get your measurements done ASAP and start going by the tape measure. Or get a new set.

43 - Did your NFD go well? Well done for resisting office treats.

Faron & 43 Good luck for your FD today.

Harriet- Well done on your mini

Good luck to anyone else fasting today.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck Thu 06-Dec-18 22:08:08

Glad to hear you are feeling better emcla

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