5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "(972 Posts)
Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8
The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:
Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.
For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting
16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well
4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week
ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day
b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500
BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.
FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise
MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories
miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk
NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE
NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans
SV = Scale Victory
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.
WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.
HOW TO START
. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day
Useful Resources & Calculators
Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
FAQs / Tips
- WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
- HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
- SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
- EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
- FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice.
e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
- BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
- NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
- Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
- CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)
Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health
BBC article on the original Horizon program
Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.
This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.
Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”
Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2
Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52
Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma
HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis
Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.
Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"
He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.
More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease
His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.
Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease
Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"
This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview
NY Times Fasting Overview
Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.
Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper
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Welcome to 5:2 thread # 81 !
We’re a very friendly bunch, so pop in and join us
Post whenever you need advice or support, or just to tell us how you are doing
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Morning all! Checking in to the new shiny thread - thanks BCF!
I haven't been fasting this week as I'm still giving my tummy a rest after last week. Had a good weekend away though - used a lot of tricks from my arsenal (only one meal a day, no snacking etc etc) and weighed in on Tuesday morning at 8st 10lb. I may have gained this week due to no fasting but it shouldn't be too bad.
Happy Friday everyone and good luck to those fasting today or over the weekend.
Are we actually twins HLBug? My tum still not right, my tea left the building at about 5am this morning, I mean who poos then???? Was 8 11 yesterday
BCF apart from dog walks no exercise this week shall I attempt this morning?
Thanks for the new thread BCF we are going through them so quick.
43 - I hope you nailed your FD.
Snail - I hope your FD also went well.
Boys - Well done on your B2B you’ve done fantastic. Remember we are so critical of ourself it’s probably just a awful angle. You’ve done so well.
Cheddar - Hope your FD also went well, did your omlette fill you up? You can’t beat a big omlette on a FD
Lara - Yep used to get these comments quite often. I no longer tell people as I’ve had quite a bit of negativity. Actually more negative than positive comments. I ignore it but I’ve found people do actually now ask because they can see whatever I’m doing is working as I’ve been maintaining for almost 8 months. When they ask I do tell them and they seem interested now and want to know my secret.
StirCrazy- I’ve saved your post as that sounds like a lovely dish that I’d love to make, Makes a change from a omlette and I’ve always got those staples in so it will make my shopping go further. Thanks
Snail - I totally agree with your post, it’s a heated topic but I think it’s down to how you word it. When I say “fasting” or “intermittent fasting” it seems to bring out the really negative comments. The worst being a friend actually spoke to my mum and said she thought I had a eating disorder as I was starving myself.
but 5:2 doesn’t I’ve found people then simply say “I don’t understand how you can eat what you want for 5 days and loose weight” I think it’s down to the wording you use.
Well done Bug, sounds like you’ve had a good week despite not fasting. How are you feeling now?
Blossom - Not you aswell, hope your run recovers quickly. As long as you don’t overdo it and feel upto it I can’t see a issue with resumuming exercise I think it’s the fasting you need to mind with a dodge tum.
Good solid FD here yesterday, Wednesday went a little off track but all sorted now.
thanks for the new thread bcf
well done on your fd quacking
Hope your tum is better soon iam
Day 2 of b2b and got a super busy day in which i might not actually stop until 9pm tonight, so hoping that I'll manage it okay! Got friends over tomorrow night for a Mexican feast, arriba!!! looking forward to a couple of glasses then
Thanks @big! Love the new thread
Finished B2B yesterday, 630. Happy with that!
@lam @bug I hope you feel better soon, a dodgy tum is awful!
@quacking, it is an awful angle but that doesn't excuse what I saw unfortunately. I'm using it as a stepping stone to keep me on track, fingers crossed it works!
@43 good luck today! and to all the Friday fasters
Blossom Until your tum is better, I suggest you just stick to dog walks, no more exercise.
Once all symptoms have disappeared, then weight at leaast 5 days before fasting.
bug That's good you're giving your tum a rest, too.
I hope all dodgy tums soon recover
Boys Don't worry about that photo, because you have decided you are going to change your body with 5:2
That's just the old bod, so stay focused and the new one will gradually appear.
Well done on your FD, duck
I agree, best just to say 5:2 if someone is nosy enough to ask
Good luck, 43
I'm fasting today too
Anyone else apart from us ? 🐒
Sorry typo, Blossom Once all symptoms have disappeared, wait at least 5 days before fasting.
Happy Friday everyone!
I’m not fasting today so I just had a nutritionally delinquent lunch of 2 crumpets with liberal marg and marmite along with a GU zillionaire cheesecake! (No breakfast so not as bad as it sounds) It tasted all the better as I ate it in a kid free room in sunshiny peace. I love 5:2!
Booze free October is doing it for me, as I hit 61.8 this morning (yay!) it’s the lightest I’ve been in 4 years! I don’t think I could be doing it without these threads though.. THANK YOU!
quacking glad you liked it.. in hindsight I should’ve just sent you the link but I thought you’d appreciate the personal touch! Just remember to use a non stick pan with a non meltable handle.
43 good luck with your b2b, it will be worth it for your feast tomorrow. I LOVE Mexican!
BCF enjoy your fast today too and thank you for the new thread, it’s funny how little you miss snacking once you stop doing it!
lara well done on your first weeks fasting. You might find it useful to MFP your weekend as it will throw up any calorie bombs. (Hmmm like GU puddings..)
well done on your SV stir and your lunch sounds interesting but delicious, all the better for eating it in peace!!!
High five bcf.....what delights have you planned for today then? I've just had a subway chicken salad (convenient as I'm in the office) and i'm freezing cold so thinking a nice low cal soup with some extra protein (chicken or turkey) for dinner. I might treat myself to something from M&S on the way home...
Checking in! Have just had a lovely NFD lunch of avocado, fried egg, mixed leaves and homemade sourdough bread. I made my own sourdough starter over the summer holidays and the bread is so delicious.
mmm snail that sounds amazing
but fatal for me I wouldn't be able to stop eating it!!!
< evils at snail on my FD ! >
Hi 43 < waves > Soup sounds a good antidote to a freezing office.
I had a fasted morning gym class and an Optifast leek soup for lunch
Off now for another walk along the sunny Rhine (22C),
then supper will be at my fav Rhine cafe - "Hessen Handkäse mit Musik" accompanied by a big mixed salad with a boiled egg yolk and crusty rye bread.
Just checking into the new thread. About to go for my first run in a long time. I feel like I’ve got the eating under control (ish) so time to overhaul the exercise now
Is "Hessen Handkäse mit that weird farting cheese that you mentioned on a previous thread bcf ?
Well done borris good luck on your run
43 The alleged farting is supposed to come with the onions < indignant about the slur on a fav dish >
The cheese itself is just high protein, low fat
The "Hessen" part is a regional variation, meaning it comes with slices of apple too
That's excellent news about the eating Borris
For cross-training between running days, why not try a blast of HIIT, e.g. the free Shred 1 online
Blimey another thread!
Well I'm 3 lb down since I got back from my holiday.
Another seven to go to get to "happy weight"
Not having to fit meals round children any more has made my diet more varied again (they are both at Uni now)
and a sunny afternoon in the garden burned some bonus calories!
Hi everyone. I had planned to do a FD today, but my plans have gone a little awry due to spending the last couple of days hanging around in hospital with my daughter. I always find eating in there completely disruptive (even before I did 5:2) as I have no control of what is available plus all the hanging around doing nothing makes me bored and hungry!!
Well done, Stir and Ta1k. Are you feeling better now, Bug?
Hello! I have been a long time lurker and had really good success with 5:2 after I had my second child. My third is now 10 months old and I have not managed to shift all the baby weigh so it’s time for me to dive back into 5:2 and hold my self accountable by actually joining the thread rather than lurking I have at least 1.5 stone to lose, ideally 2.... hope everyone is having a lovely Friday and good luck to any weekend fasters!
Summer I hope all is ok now with your DD
hospital food is the most unhealthy ever GRRR - so your FD tomorrow is a good plan
Well done on your SV, TiP
Welcome, Flick and good luck
You sound an experienced faster, so you should soon get in the 5:2 swing again
Many of us find that posting here helps us stick to our WOL
Evening all. Went to doctors this morning and actually cried when she did an abdominal exam, very tender tummy. She took loads of blood to do all the tests for organ functions but am sure it's just a viral bug and will go soon.
Did a long dog walk today but am not even in the mood for gym, swimming or running so I know I'm not right.
Happily I have a girly champneys spa day tomorrow, what good timing!
Well done on your sv tip
Welcome flick and good luck with it.
for you summer hope all okay with dd
Ouch iam fingers crossed you are back to health soon, sounds awful.
Just sat down with a cuppa, day 2 of b2b finished on 642 hope everyone else has had a good fd or nfd.... I'm so looking forward to tomorrow
once I've cooked it all though happy weekend all
Checking in - hello you lovely lot! Thanks BCF for new thread
Hope dodgy tums sort themselves out soon...I have only just recovered 3 weeks later! I'm going to see how the weekend goes and might do a FD towards middle/end of next week
Was 12st12 when I joined so I'm hoping to capitalise on the weight lost on the loo by being careful now, mindful of calories, no snacking or booze etc
My appetite is just about returning although there's still some foodstuffs that I can't bear the thought of.
Good luck to any weekend fasters!
Thank you for the welcomes! I know in theory what I need to do but just can’t seem to get in the zone so bigchoc you are right, I’m hoping posting here will be the boost I need to stick to it.
Am just off to an early gym class (am not in the UK so it is early but not the actual middle of the night ) but it’s the snacking and feeling I ‘deserve a treat’ that I need to get back on track with...
Sorry to hear of poorly people and hope everyone is feeling much better soon.
43 - I hope your B2B went well, did you find it easier because you were so busy?
Boys - Well done on your B2B. Sometimes things like that can be a blessing as it does give us a boost to continue. But you’ve got this, you lot are hardcore with all the B2Bs going on.
BCF - Did you have a good FD? Not jealous of your weather at all? She says sat in a blanket.
StirCrazy - Massive Congratulations on your SV that’s absolutely fantastic. I’d be really fascinated to see your monthly total at the end of the month.
Thanks for that recipe I will definitely have to try it. All my pans have plastic handles so it may result in a melted mess.
Snail that sounds amazing, do you have a bread maker?
Borris - Good for you, I hope it went well.
Good to see you TiP, fab news on the 3lbs.
Summer- Sorry to hear that I hope you DD makes a speedy recovery.
Welcome to the thread Flick. When are you planning your FD for?
Blossom- Hope you make a fast recovery, hope you have a lovely day today at the spa.
MrJolly- Hope you also make a speedy recovery. Congratulations on your SV, you’ve done fantastic that’s a lot you’ve lost there.
Flick - Posting really does help, I think of you plan a FD and announce it it really does keep you accountable. It’s a very supportive thread I know I couldn’t of done this journey without it. I was very much like that, if I had a good day I should deserve a treat but now use it as a weekly insentive to stay on track. Non food treat rewards are great to stay motivated. I had a list of rewards per 7lbs, hair cut, clothes anything non food that will give you a boost.
1lbs up today after a 3 course carb loaded Italian last night, actually quite shocked it wasn’t a lot more. I have lots of FD food in today so may aim for a mini.
Are there any Saturday fasters about today? Good luck if you are, and have a great weekend.
Oh, poor blossom
I do hope the tests help the doc to diagnose your tum and to zap the problem asap
Try to sleep and drink loads of water, but no booze, just TLC
Good to hear your tum has recovered, MrJolly
I recommend you give yourself next week on healthy TLC: no fasting, no booze, no junk, no snacks
Then have 2 miniFDs the following week, if you feel ready
You have achieved a lot on 5:2, including healthier habits, so give yourself this extra time
Flick Try to think of the definition of a "treat": something special that you have occasionally
So, not an everyday event, not your "normal" food
It really helps progress to keep 5:2 healthy habits on NFDs, even at weekends and later on maintenance:
.NHS alcohol limits
.no snacking / grazing between meals
*.sensible about sugary treats & crisps - no more than 1 sensible portion on 3 NFDs
.lots of water & veg
.cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones*
Well done on your b2b, 43
My FD went well, thanks, Duck
I'm sitting at the table, looking out onto the sunny Rhein again - crikey, 25-26C predicted today
< Digs out shorts and tee for the morning jog. Exits whistling >
Morning all! I'm after having a terrible day yesterday. I'm not even going to add up the total and just write it off.
As punishment I'm feeling awful, part of me wants to be sick and hope that's the end of it. It's odd, I used to be able to eat 10 times what I ate last night and not feel the repercussions the cramps areunbelievable. I think labour was easier.
I am feeling more than a little sorry for myself right now
Big you need to burn the house down. No other choice.
Wow, Jolly! More than a stone!
Blossom - hope you get better soon and that the doctor is able to find out what it is.
BCF - is the trade off for having wonderful, unseasonable weather, being faced with ridiculously large bugs? I think I'd take the weather!
Its a type of stink bug - harmless but should not be in the house. Chuck it out the window and a street birdie will get a treat snack
And thinking of Treats
I loathe the treat culture.
Treats are for special occasions or when you have done something really special
not just because you made it through the day without swearing ....
Especially sodding cake / sugar based "treats"
quacking I have a bread maker but only use that for everyday bread. Sourdough is very different and really needs to be made my hand. But it’s not difficult at all once you get into the rhythm of it and get your starter going nicely. From beginning to end the process of making a loaf once you have your starter takes around 24 hours but pretty much all of that is just waiting for it to rise and then prove. I love slow food: its so satisfying. I used Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall’s method which explains it all very well
Sorry to hear you are suffering, boys after an over-indulgent day yesterday
Some folk find after a while on 5:2 that their bodies can no longer tolerate bingeing on food or booze
- they probably developed a tolerance for it before, but fasting can stop that
This can be a sign that "before" was maybe not a healthy lifestyle
I deal with nature in 4 different ways,
but since the bug wasn't pretty enough to admire, didn't look tasty and didn't want to play with a ball ... I picked it up in a tissue and squashed it, then binned it
It had a surprisingly hard shell.
TiP I'm impressed by your knowledge of creepy-crawlies !
summer it has been a phenomenal run of hot weather, since early June
I had a few mosquito bites, which were far more annoying than this big ugly beast
Crikey, snail < impressed >
24 hrs is a labour of love and not an impulse choice for lunch
Thanks for the messages about my daughter. She was hit on the head with a football at school (she was eating her lunch, but too close to the pitch!). Because she has a complex cardiac condition and is on warfarin, the medics in her life take everything more seriously with her and so wanted her in, CT'd and observed etc as a precaution. She seems fine now.
I've decided to do an extra FD tomorrow to make up for the hospital food.
Hi everyone! First FD for me in literally about a year. Am back on the wagon as am sick of being fat and tired all the time. Am bloody starving but am at 502 cals.
May have to go to bed in a minute to avoid losing my willpower!!
Nice to be back in here, last time I was on a thread o think it was about number 67!! BCF and TiP it's reassuring to see you still here!
Good morning! Just a quick check in to log my fast day 😬 we work Sunday- Thursday here so this is my first day of the working week. I plan to do today and Wednesday.
Thanks so much for all the thoughts on ‘treats’ really helpful
Well done on your FD, Annie and great to see you again
You are back in the fasting swing
Once you are back in Happy Weight Range, I recommend a maintenance plan, e.g. 6:1 + our healthy 5:2 habits
Good luck on your 1st FD back, Flick
Good luck on your FD as well, summer
That was an unlucky accident for your DD, poor child, but now you can both relax and get back into routine
Planning a b2b tomorrow. Had visitors this weekend. Went well food wise until Chinese takeaway tonight before they left. Hoping it won’t have done too much damage. Will be back on it tomorrow
Hi all, have been following the last thread for a while. Started back 5:2 around the start of September (holidays were officially over then) and have lost 1stone since starting back. Just checking in, fd again tomorrow (Monday & Thursday usually) definitely find this WOE let's me live more easily with food and still keep within the weight i like. Anyway good luck tomorrow Monday fasters .
Hi witch! FD for me today. I am taking the car for a service. Do I win most boring FD activity?
Hi everyone want to attempt my first FD today in a verrrrryy long while - sitting here looking at 8 week old DD and the resulting 1.5 stone of pregnancy weight I need to lose ! She’s doing some longer stretches at night now and I’m no longer BFeeding so I do want to try and shift some extra weight before Xmas. Is it best to just jump in with a 500 calorie day ?
Boys - Sorry to hear about that, these things do happen. I hope your feeling better now. You may find your tolerance to some food changes. I usually feel awful hungover like after a carb overload.
TiP - what you’ve said previously about treats has sunk in for me. I no longer use the word treat for food. Only clothes now
Snail - that’s interesting never knew sourdough needed to be made by hand. Oh I like that Hugh after Britain’s fat fight program that was really interesting. Yeah Car service is up there with waiting in the post office line. Are you actually having to sit and wait?
Summer- Glad to hear your DD is fine. Have a good week.
Annie - Welcome back to the thread.
Flick - Hope your FD went well yesterday.
Borris- Good luck for your B2B.
Whitewinter - Congratulations on loosing a stone that’s fantastic. Good luck for your FD.
Good luck to everyone fasting today.
Morning everyone and welcome newbies
B2b was fine quacking and being super busy made it fly by....
However, I was shocked to see 1lb gain at the scales on saturday morning I'm not sure what more I can do (i really don't want to go to 4:3) but I historically find it very hard to get past this weight.... I am 44, 5 ft 7 ins and now weigh 12 st 1lb - loads of people have commented recently about how much weight I've lost and that old chestnut about not needing to loose anymore etc etc, but I want to get down to about 11 st 4lb if I can (which will only just get me into the healthy BMI range at 24.7) - will I ever be able to.....
Anyway, suffice to say this weekend I ended up eating a bit more than usual on sat as i thought f**k it, but drawn a line under that now, NFD today and FD tomorrow and friday
Sorry for the moan
Morning all! Hope the weekend was great for everyone!
FD will be this weekend (why am I doing this to myself ), I've breakfast lunch and dinner all done. No snacking, I've enough on the plate that will do me.
I'm waiting a week to step on the scales, I think the damage done on Friday night was bad enough to see a gain! We got takeaway pizza, the pain was ridiculous. It was DS1's choice he was officially discharged from a specialist he's been seeing since birth, it was the big one (still with plenty of others), wasn't expecting it and sure he obvs got to choose dinner then!
lesson learned, he can have his treat, I eat the dinner I had made for myself, onward and downward
Good luck Monday fasters!
quacking I think it can be made by machine but by hand is a lot nicer! Here's the link if you ever fancy a bread project: www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/may/10/hugh-fearnley-whittingstall-recipes-sourdough
Yep, I am sitting and waiting for my car. But it's actually quite nice. Free wi-fi, green tea on tap, comfy chairs and I can just sit here and get on with work!
Congrats on your SV and milestone, witch
That's good you feel comfortable on 5:2; makes it sustainable
Good luck on your 1st FD back, need
After only 8 weeks since the birth, even without BF, your body will still be recovering.
So I recommend you aim for 800 cals for the first couple of weeks and allow yourself up to 1000 if you feel you need it.
Good luck too to Borris, witch and all the other Monday fasters
Enjoy your car's day out, snail Sounds luxurious
43 It really sounds like you are eating back the FD deficit on NFDs - classic symptoms
I recommend you mfp for at least 1 week, preferably 2, to highlight calorie bombs, treats, sugar, booze, portion size etc
I know you don't want to, but it's just long enough to find out where the problem lies so you can zap it
No need to mfp permanently
Ouch, boys Your tum would probably appreciate an FD during the week as well, to give it a rest
Thanks BigChoc been browsing the inspiration thread for ermmm..inspiration ! Am also going to try really reducing sugar intake for DH and I on NFDs while I lose the bulk of my weight as we have got used to eating far too much
@big you're right, I'll do a mini on Wednesday to get it kick started, and stick to my b2b for the weekend thanks!
thanks bcf I have been mostly mfp-ing but have been trying to wean myself off it slightly (except for fd's) in order to make it more of a natural way of life, but maybe I am over eating on my nfd's I don't want to have to mfp for the REST OF MY LIFE - but maybe i need to concede that I have to
thanks for the kick up the bum!!!
I'm not sure if this is inspiration, need, but for best progress
+ No alcohol or junk, especially sugary treats
+ Don't eat back exercise cals
If you want to allow for exercise, do so on NFDs only, via Calc TDEEE*
On NFDs, keep 5:2 healthy habits, even at weekends:
.NHS alcohol limits
.no snacking / grazing between meals
.sensible about sugary treats & crisps
.lots of water & veg
.cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks
Only have "treats" as part of an NFD meal, never as a snack between meals.
Even "healthy" snacks keep insulin raised; hence they hinder fat-burning, increase overall daily hunger & calories.
43 Most folk who use mfp just need a week or 2 to identify the areas to work on
Then mfp long enough to be confident you have changed your longterm habits
Don't feel bad about it:
Many folk have got used to eating more than their body can burn, because high-cal food & drink are pushed at us 24/7 - and because business cleverly persuades us to consume more of everything
You need to retrain your "normal" until it becomes automatic
This will enable you, once you reach goal, to avoid regain. It's a vital part of the maintenance plan.
Borris can tell you of the shocks that mfp gave her,
e.g. calories in breakfast pastries, hidden portion size on packets
Cereal, porridge, pasta, rice, bread are the classic culprits re portion size
Had a different weekend - first one since both kids left home.
DH and I walked into town for dinner and then walked home via a micro brewery - 9 miles round trip offset the food and drink a bit.
Saturday the weather was foul so we pottered and then he made Moussaka out of home grown aubergines - nom nom
Sunday we cycled up the river to have a big Sunday lunch - about 12 miles round trip
ended the weekend feeling like we had eaten well but not at all over filled.
Fasting today - the usual omelette for supper tonight should keep the holiday gain shifting.
Crikey, the nest must seem very empty, TiP ... and too quiet !
It's an excellent idea to take all those leisurely trips you didn't often do before
Kitchen closing at around 700.. a very unsatisfactory FD.. in a foul mood.. mainly because I’m craving wine - day 8 of sober October and it’s lost its novelty! Also grumpy as I got a ready meal for tea (350) as I thought it would save me time and it was the most tasteless pile of stodge I’ve eaten for months.. I wish I’d stuck to my regular salad and grilled squid rings. To top it all its totm! :-(
43 I get its frustrating but remember weight is just a number.. you bought new jeans and everyone is noticing.. the you of 6 months ago would be giving you a high five!
I hope all the other fasters have had a better day than me! xx
Kitchen closed after a day of lunatic running around, so not hard to be distracted! Around 450 so enough for small unsweetened cocoa if I get the urge to dive into the lemon crunch cake I made yesterday, which is now regarding me sadly from the worktop. Tomorrow!
Well done on your FDs, stir, snail
Stir 700 is fine on totm;
shame about the ready meal - some are really tasty
That craving for wine means it's a really good idea to have a dry month - it's probably psychological, your way of winding down, but on NFDs, try say a mug of cocoa instead,
Think of Dry October as a platform to kick the dependency and form healthier drinking habits.
In November, always stick to NHS guidelines even at weekends and continue this through the runup to Christmas.
plugging away with my b2b. Haven't gotten my focus back and feel a cold/flu coming on and so just haven't got the energy to think about diet. So I'm just considering this my mini-maintenance phase. Never mind that I still have 5 kilos left till happy weight...
Hi Folks, well that's the first fd of the week done. 603. Had a crappy day at work(people related) so I'm happy to have not dived into the big cake a colleague had brought in for tea this morning!! In bed now with a mug of decaff coffee to help me nod off & have a massive pot of soup made for lunch for the next few days. Omelette is my Thursday fd saviour, so tasty. Anyway hope everyone else managed a good fd. snail hope the car got on ok. stir I find i need to up my cals around totm too so try not to be disappointed you did good back on thursday. Night
Well done on your FD, witch and on resisting cake on a crappy work day
Pop If you've a bad cold, I suggest you do miniFDs and maybe not b2b.
To compensate - and also to support your immune system - this week try to cut out alcohol, sweet treats and other carby junk.
Nourishing stews with plenty of beans and veg would be ideal on NFDs
Cutting out junk also helps you get back in the fasting swing, as does cutting out all snacks.
I hope you feel better soon
I’m doing b2b d2 tomorrow bug so I’m with you.
D1 been easy today. It’s funny how some days fly by and you don’t think about food and then others you’re constantly clock watching thinking I need to wait a bit longer before eating
First FD done yesterday, as suggested I aimed for 800 cals was very doable. Going to try for 1200 today (TDEE is 1600) but NO junk / snacking again which is my downfall, all I did while pregnant was eating the carby / sugary stuff to combat the awful morning sickness ! Have a good day everyone.
thanks bcf for the tips, I don't ever have alcohol or junk on FDs (how can you on 500 cals!) and I'm mostly never snacking (although it has crept back in the last couple of weekends) so I will correct this...
stir thank you for the lovely words, they made me smile and you are right, 6 months ago i was 29lbs heavier so I have to remember that hope your mood lifted
i'd be the same with the thought of no wine for a month and your FD sounds okay all things considered!!
Hope you feel better soon pop and well done to white and need on your FDs
bug I'm fasting today also, just got to the office and had a skinny vanilla latte to see me through to a lunch of chicken salad, probably a mushroom omelette and salad for tea... hope you have a good FD
Good luck, Tuesday fasters.
Need I recommend you aim for around TDEE most NFDs - these are supposed to be basically maintenance days
Otherwise, it is too much like dieting every day
Let yourself relax on NFDs
43 - Well done on your b2b. Sounds like your at a sticky weight point. Honestly just carry on doing what your doing at it will shift, I promise you that. I was getting this every stone bracket at the same point and took a while but once it goes you will be on your way again. It’s a PITA at the time tho. I agree about 4:3, it’s never worked for me as I never lost on the 3rd day. The alternative is 5:2 and a mini 800-1000. You’ve done great if people are committed on your losses but if you want to go lower ignore them as people do get funny about weight.
Boys - That’s weird as it was pizza that made me feel bloody awful a few weeks ago. Hope you have a good week.
Snail - Thanks for the link, I’ve never made bread before.
NeedMore - Reducing sugar on NFD May really help. It really settled my sugar cravings when I started and set me up for good habits long term. I would recommend it.
43 - I know what your saving with MFP. I didn’t want to count either but after a while you learn it so there becomes a point you only need to log new food IYSWIM.
But that may depend if your eating a lot of different meals, where as I do repeat the same meals most weeks.
TiP sounds like you had a wonderful weekend.
StirCrazy- Hate it when FD food is disappointing that’s rubbish. Crossing my fingers for you getting a TOTM whoosh soon.
Snail - Fab job on your FD and resisting your cake calling your name.
Pop - Sorry to hear that. Make sure you get yourself well before worrying about that. You’ve done fantastic and these things things are set to try us.
Well done on nailing your FD wineWinter.
Good luck for today Bug & Borris and everyone else fasting
Well done on your FD Borris
43 As stir said, look how far you have come and what you have achieved
Those around you have noticed how well you have done
I frequently remind about FDs, just in case - because a few folk in the past have indeed tried to squeeze in a glass of wine, crisps, or a bar of choc - and just cut the healthy stuff !
Rather more have say a couple of choc biscuits or a mini choc bar though and that can slow things down
Lots of people have found they can lose initially with quite indulgent NFDs, but need to tighten up to lose the remainder
So don't worry; it's quite usual. You sound determined and with a few tweaks you can resume progress to goal
duck mfp is really like training wheels:
once people have learned new habits and automatically eat within TDEE on NFDs, then they can put the training wheels in the garage - in case they need them again - and ride the bike without
Just checking into new thread. Pretty crappy couple of days - think I have caught DS’ bug! Horrible tummy cramps and many trips to the loo. I am feeling slightly more alive today but still not well, so no fasting for me today. I determinedly ate white carbs yesterday in an attempt to ballast my tummy but it didn’t work, so I’m going to gird my loins and trek (all of 500 yards) to the shop and buy chicken soup for lunch.
43 you have done brilliantly! Don't beat yourself up - losing 29lb is amazing.
SV for me today - down 2lb to 9 st 13, hooray. I'm going to be very interested to see if phase 2 of fasting gets me past my plateau of 9st 10lb. Looking at my MFP record, phase 1 started on Monday 8 Jan at 10st 13lbs. On Friday 11 May I hit 9st 10lbs and pretty much stayed there, despite 5:2. Stopped fasting on August 3 for holiday and have now come back to it. I'm wondering whether it will help to have had that period where I stopped - sort of letting body get used to new weight and then carrying on losing.
thanks quacking its good to know with perseverance I can get past this point... and its interesting what you say about 4:3 and not loosing any more, I think for me it would make it feel more like a diet and I rebel against that feeling
bcf i'm thinking given my failure at going mfp-free I might always need training wheels!!! but maybe that's fine and just how I have to do this??
cheddar hope you feel better soon, a few on this thread have had a tummy bug hope the soup helps
thanks snail and wow, excellent SV, I reckon you'll soon smash that 9st 10lb mark
Well done on your SV, snail
It is true that at certain points, which may be set points, your body may pause for quite some time, to consolidate it loss, before losing more.
That does get blocked however, if people return to their old WOE and put on a lot of weight.
Those like you who have basically maintained are in a very good position to lose a few extra lb, if it suits their individual body
43 We don't have "failure" here
You just need to return to the training wheels for a while until new habits are properly ingrained
especially the "^no snacking" - or I come smacking !^
Sorry to hear that, cheddar I hope you & DS recover v soon
As I've posted to others with tum bug, don't fast until at least 5 days after all symptoms have gone,
because your gut will still be recovering - fasting may irritate it and cause symptoms to reappear.
Instead, in the interim, concentrate on nourishing food to support your system: no junk, no sweet crap, no booze.
Also avoid very spicy food and fruit juice, as the acid can irrititate.
Morning! Sorry to hear we still have so many poorly people, get well soon all of you and hang in there Tuesday fasters!
A quick line to say I’m feeling far more cheerful today and quite proud of myself for not caving last night and demolishing the ice cream/bottle of wine I was craving. BCF you are right it’s a warning sign and it’s quite scary how quickly alcohol can become ‘medicinal’, I think this break is doing me good and resetting my system before the Xmas
blowout festivities. (Only joking, we have a sporty holiday booked for Xmas!)
43 please don’t hit me for saying this (ducks) but is there anything you could switch your lattes to? I had to train myself to like Americanos (with a dash of milk) as even the skinny lattes were adding up. It might make no difference but could be worth the experiment?
snail well done on your SV I think you have a point with the body needing time to rest and adjust. I’m definitely approaching a sticky point so it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
stir Good to hear you are feeling better! I am doing sober October kind of by accident - husband has had to give up all caffeine and alcohol for health reasons and I thought I'd join him (with the alcohol, that is) because I also noticed that when my mum was ill I was starting to have a sneaky glass of wine or G&T during the week to relax, and that's a bit of a warning sign - I don't want to be reliant on any kind of food or drink to feel relaxed! Lots of other things I can do! So let's be no-booze buddies.
@stir that's amazing! Well done! Good luck with the rest of teh month
@quaking it did alright, I think my body is sending loud enough signals, I cannot handle this food!
@cheddar I hope you're feeling better! There is definitely something going around, a few kids in DS1's class have it, praying it doesn't come into the house!
Kitchen closed at 1109 last night, quite pleased with that! I've found a particularly difficult walk for lunch while at work, my aim is to get to the top of the painfully steep hill without losing breath. It will take awhile.
Good luck Tuesday fasters!
No need to duck stir I take your point, but at around 100 calories (with sugar free syrup) I'm quite happy to spend that on them especially as I don't have breakfast and I'd never have more than one in a day (too bloody expensive!!) and I don't have them everyday
well done on resisting yesterday, alcohol can so easily become a crutch and a coping mechanism, when my mum died I ended up drinking at least half a bottle of wine every evening, which started to become nearly a bottle - I now
mostly only have a drink on a sat and sun, but you are right, its scary how quickly these things become a habit.
Well done boys
bcf the snacking habit thing is one I think I can easily get to grips with again as it really does make such a difference to coping with 5:2 and I never snack in the week, its only just started creeping in on the weekends
Chicken salad eaten and I've a rumble in my belly still, lots of water and coffee this afternoon I predict! how are all the other tues fasters getting on??
Kitchen closed at 570ish calories. Milky coffees during the day then chicken with ciabatta, cheese and salad for dinner. I do love the feeling after a FD - I need to remember this feeling at the start of the day / the nights before!!
Well done, bug - and now you'll remember this great feeling next FD ￼
Well done bug
fd done here on about 555cals, pretty happy with that... off for an early night now
Fist bumps fasters. I finished b2b d2 on 700 which I hope is ok as yesterday was about 550. For some reason I found yesterday way easier than today?
Really hoping to below 66.9 tomorrow which is my lowest since starting 5:2. Also thinking of doing a mini on Friday this week and next as I’m off to a party next Saturday and want to look (and more importantly feel!!) fabulous 😀
Well done on your FDs, bug, borris
Good luck, Wednesday fasters
borris Many folk find it easier to split the cals as you did, with more on the 2nd day
It makes sense, because you start FD2 already fasted
Incredible summer weather still, here - maybe we'll have a horrid long snowy winter, to compensate ....
This week is 23-25C, but feels hotter - I've been relaxing in shorts & cropped trews, baking outside in the sunny afternoons on the Rhine
Being October, the mornings are cooler, or I'd wear shorts
26C this weekend - so I'll wear them then
< apologies if it's a cold, rainy October for any fasters >
Going to attempt second FD today on about 700 cals, am tired after a bit of a disturbed night with DD but onwards and downwards. Very hungry this morning but going to have s couple of coffees. Enjoying reading everyone’s stories & meal plans.
Woo woo. Scales going the right direction again! .5kg down from last week. Maybe that is the encouragement I need to get back my mythical focus .
Plus my skirt, which I've already taken in once, wants to be taken in again. Hanging dangerously low on my hips.
Trying to figure out what was different from this week Vs others. Could just be that I've been on the edge of poorly but I also think I may have been carb loading. Also, I think my b2b were coming in at closer to 650 and I wonder if for me I need to stay closer to 500 as I've traditionally done. Gut tell me nfd are probably more the issue but I only have FD data to work with
Cheddar - oh no not you aswell. I hope you make a speedy recovery again soon.
Well done on your loss snail. Are you looking to go under your lowest?
43 - yes I think personally 3 FDs is too much. I do think we all need the freedom of the other days to also learn what to eat and what works for us and that sets us up for the future.
StirCrazy- Glad you didn’t cave. Good luck to you and snail.
Boys - For me in future if I do have another pizza I will choose a smaller one . It’s still hard sometimes with eyes bigger than my belly.
Bug - Well done on your FD. It really is a mind over matter thing isn’t it. I regularly argue with myself thinking FD today, then the other part of me says but I don’t want too.
Well done Borris on your B2B, that’s so strange you found your lower calorie day easier. Good luck for your weigh in.
BCF - Our weather has been strange the last couple of days start the day off wearing a winter coat and boots and the afternoon sunglasses it’s really unpredictable.
NeedMoreWine - Good luck for your FD. Lots of coffees and a couple of big glasses of water will help.
Pop well done on your SV. Also on your inch loss, that fantastic.
I’m debating over a FD today or tomorrow but will probably choose tomorrow as Thursdays are usually my day.
Good luck to everyone fasting today.
Good luck needmorewine. You can do it!
Pop 0.5kg is fantastic
Weigh in this am 66.8kg so I am below 66.9kg (my 5:2 low, but only just!). 0.2kg loss this week which isn’t much but I had a slightly indulgent weekend with visitors so will try to have a really healthy week this week
Ahh thanks for the support boris and quacking . In Costa with a black coffee and a water feeling very virtuous and ignoring the pastries !!!! Good luck everyone fasting today. Well done on weight loss pop. When is the best time to weigh weekly ? Morning after second fast day of the week was what I used to do before ? Although I am a bit worried that as I’m not doing proper 500 days it won’t have worked , but I don’t think at the mo I’ll be able to function very easily on less than about 700. Ps I’m actually no longer hungry - miracle !!!
Well done borris.
Quacking, I know what you mean re pizza. IT is a favourite of mine but I have trouble now eating as much as I used to. I've also got murmers of my parent's drilling into me that I need to finish everything on my plate boucning around my head so it's hard to stop even when I want to. But last time I got a pizza I only ate about half and wished I'd had the courage to order a kids sized one which would have been perfect for me. I never know if that's allowed...
Good luck, need and 700-900 FDs look sensible for you, at least for the first few weeks
Just avoid grabbing any sweet junk.
Boiled eggs, cooked chicken breast, sticks of carrot/celery/cucumber (without dip) are useful to keep handy in the frig, just in case.
I'm fasting too.
As you like menus:
B: 2 x hibiscus tea
L: grilled salmon fillet and big mixed salad with lemon & balsamic
Evening training: advanced lifting 1hr
S: veg soup (Optifast)
Well done on your SV, pop
Yes, it is far more likely to be your NFDs - an extra 100-150 cals on FDs would only very slightly slow things down.
As for others, if you find your loss is very slow, I recommend a week on mfp as a reality check on NFDs;
almost everyone who does this - after 3+ weeks of sts -
is shocked by how much they consume and also by the "recommended" portion sizes of some of their common foods
pop Sometimes parents didn't know best:
being trained to clear your plate is one example of old advice that is not appropriate for our obesogenic society.
ANother 5:2 motto is "^stop eating when no longer hungry^" - an important habit for the longterm
When out, I have never found it a problem to order a kid's size of something stodgy & greasy like that, then have a big salad on the side, with vinaigrette
You are the customer: your tum, your choice.
Hello, I've done another FD today after a disastrous two days since my last one. I'm really struggling to balance the NFD's and particularly bad this week as had an evening out on Monday and ended up drinking far too much, so Tuesday was carb loaded hangover central. Am not proud but figured just to move on and get another FD done today. Found today not too bad. Had a Shakshuka variation for lunch and haven't felt too hungry since. Am on about 550 cals.
What are your tips to get back in the zone for NFDs as well as FDs?
You all seem to be doing really well, lots of sv's..
Sorry BCF just read your tips for success in your last post! Will get myself on to mfp everyday!
I see you are using the optifast Soups? Are they better than some of the low cal cupasoups etc? Sounds interesting!
Annie I just tried the Optifast soups because they were what Prof Taylor's study used - that's the original one on which Mosely's BSD was based
They are designed to supply nutrients longterm, with added vitamins & minerals
They are high protein - 20g - only 200 cals each, very easy to make - just add water.
I found them very satisfying for a low cal soup, but YMMV
Annie as well as sticking to the 5:2 healthy habits on NFDs, plan say 4 meals for the day in advance - you don't have to mfp or measure them of you don't want, but just scribble a menu B, L, T, D
If that day you want alcohol, include 1 glass only and choose which meal
or if you want a sweet treat - don't have both the samer day - decide which meal & have it as pud
... and stick to the plan, no snacks, no extras not on the menu
Reading your posts, I suggest you join the others on Dry October, to crack the NFD issue
It sounds like alcohol is not just piling on the calories, but also leading you to nibbling and junk
When you drink alcohol, your body stops fat-burning for hours, until your liver has post-processed all the toxic by products
So alcohol slows down progress more than you would expect for its calories
Also, try to cut back on sweet crap - have one portion on say 2-3 NFDs
High sugar spikes insulin which not only increases hunger, but also switches the body from fat-burnoing to fat-storage
Extra calories from sugar, like those alcohol, are preferentially stored as fat around the mid-section, just where you don't want it.
Morning folks, anyone else fasting today? have Pilates class planned for lunchtime & spinning class planned for dinner time so that should keep me occupied! Lots & lots of though to get me through until I can eat my mushroom omelette tonight. Good luck to anyone else having a fd
Borris- Congratulations on your SV. You’re lowest weight is a huge milestone. Fantastic stuff.
NeedMoreWine - some posters weigh weekly. Usually the day of the week they first started. Some weigh after 2nd FD and some daily. Honestly I wouldn’t worry that your not doing 500 cals. Better to start higher and be more manageable and work your way down then starting low and struggling. Your doing fantastic.
Pop - I know what you mean I also wasn’t allowed to leave the table until my meal was finished and it really does cause issues even now. It’s fine when out to order a smaller portion I occasionally eat of the senior menu my DD does too as she’s past child’s but the adults meals can be massive. Also don’t be afraid to ask your meal to be boxed to be taken home they are happy to do this.
Annie- I would recommend MFP as it’s a real eye opener if you have alcohol log that aswell. for me I felt part of the learning curve of the journey. I used to eat not only big portions but absolute crap with no veg. I needed to change NFDs to become the new normal so gradual changes were made that now equal quite big changes for example less carbs and more veg on your plate. Swaps from chips to carrot fries, mash to Swede and carrot it was easier doing it gradually rather than changing everything at once.
Me! On my way to a meeting, so nice busy morning. Marinated tuna steak planned for dinner! Already looking forward to it. I’m into green tea right now so that will be my go-to brew.
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