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The 5:2 thread number 30 - Did half term bingeing make you feel dirty? Then hop on board thread number 30!

(1000 Posts)
BetsyBell Thu 07-Nov-13 16:09:25

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

BeCool Wed 20-Nov-13 09:31:00

Clocking in - FD today.

I found Monday quite hard - I was hungry all day and THOUGHT about food all day. Just getting on with it today - and then I am 'free' for the rest of the week smile

Cuppa tea!

duckyfuzz Wed 20-Nov-13 09:52:22

FD here too, weird severe stomach pain so shouldn't be a problem sad and grin

Talkinpeace Wed 20-Nov-13 11:01:12

Easy ways to up your TDEE
- stand up : all day. Do not sit down again till after supper. Type standing up, read standing up etc etc
- stairs carry things up the stairs one at a time so that you run up them 20 times not one
- garden ifitsnot actually raining, rake the opportunity to sweep the path/drive or rake the lawn
all of those (as per another MM programme) can increase the number of calories you burn in a day by 1000

standing up to work and type and stuff is really really good for you BTW

CuckooAtchooUhOh Wed 20-Nov-13 11:54:01

Morning, just checking in.

Love that last post Tip. I try to do the stairs thing as often as remember anyway but it is amazing to see how many ways, you wouldn't necessarily think of that you can use to increase tdee.

On track so far today. Just coffees so far. I managed to get to sleep much earlier last night so got almost a normal night.

I know I'm not right at mo because sleep been out for couple of weeks now. I am doing all of my usual mantras, nothing really has changed at home other than thinking more about future finances etc - but not to degree that I would expect a physical reaction - just feel a bit flat. Like I want to curl up and lick my wounds with a massive bit of cake grin

Doc yesterday told me it's not ulcer (anymore at least) in my stomach, it's Gastritis. I should've been told apparently after H.pylori test results came back. Bit confused though as have had condradicting explanation from two diff docs about ulcers. But they are same symptoms, same medicine taking anyway, so I shall do as I was told and 'not worry' about it.

Taking anti-histamine for mad woman scratching and skin flare ups, to see if that's cause.

Going back about everything else next week.

I had to do one of those depression check lists again. Came back as mildly depressed. Had to play down my answers slightly because there wasn't an answer (or question) to fit my frame of mind so went with closest option. Doc said one more point would've had me as moderately depressed. Even though I sat there and explained at great length that I didn't feel depressed!!! She said my perspective on what depression feels like may be skewed by previous experiences!!

So I go to Docs to treat the things really bothering me. Get told take this take that don't worry about it.
But the one thing that I don't feel is an issue at mo, is the one that gets pursued!

Don't mean to sound ungrateful, but I seem to be in one of those vicious circles! It is being suggested that my mental health is affecting my physical health. But I actually feel like it is other way around!!

I have fought so hard to bring myself back to a healthier state of mind. I know what feeling depressed feels like. Because IT IS SHIT! I don't want to go back to that, so I wouldn't deliberately put myself in denial!

Maybe I've been mental so long I don't know my arse from my elbow..... But I tell you what...... if I wasn't itching like Nits headquarters, in hormone hell, sleep deprived, with a stomach that likes to make me suffer, to name a few!...... Then I'd probably feel PRETTY FRICKIN MARVELLOUS!!!!!

grin I am alright btw! Just needed to get it off my chest. I tried telling the dog but he just kept tilting his head and looking at his dinner bowl.

I really am ok. Nothing a nice cup of bouillon won't fix hmm or an attempted frenzy

Oh and doing my bit to end old thread obvs wink

postmanpatscat Wed 20-Nov-13 12:11:29

cuckoo hugs to you. I've never (knowingly) had depression but it sounds like you would know if you did, as you've been there before. Keep smiling and keep leaning on us.

Hope today's fasters are doing ok. I haven't decided whether to fast this week or not, or if I do, when! Tomorrow is a possibility. Still no internet at home and parents' evenings the last two nights so haven't been around here much.

Talkinpeace Wed 20-Nov-13 12:16:51

have a look at Mindfulness
there are lots of good free resources on youtube
its great at reducing recollection and planning worrying

BigChocFrenzy Wed 20-Nov-13 12:29:29

Cuckoo Even though the GP didn't listen much to your phsysical symptoms, she prescribed gunge that we hope sorts them all out. Maybe she spent time on the only ailment for which she had no pill.
So just hang in there and wait for the meds to start working.

Oh, I know you like to hear about the 6'5" hunks: He was at Crossfit again last night, so I grabbed him for my partner once more, as we seem a good training match. Yes, we were both knackered afterwards and i didn't yell at him once. We did lifting barbells, hanging pressups (your feet hang from ropes), burpees, skipping, sprinting, jumping, lots of twisty abs.
So, we had a lovely time. Then we did HIIT spin.

BigChocFrenzy Wed 20-Nov-13 12:40:54

I'm FDing today instead of tomorrow, as boxing cancelled tonight. So, I plan a liquid sub-100 FD and a gym hour abs / lifting.

I feel FDs really easy now. Even easier when I just have cocoa and veg juice, or even go commando (zero-cal). Anyone else ?
I read Matt Matson saying zero FD maximises health benefits, so that's my WOL.

BUT this thread keeps referring to reduced appetite on NFDs: still no sign of that in the BigChoc corner. Don't think I wish to lose my vices, anyway.
Slow loss means sustainable WOE to me.

What about you with B&J, cuckoo

toffeesponge Wed 20-Nov-13 12:48:44

Cheers Cuckoo for taking one for the team grin.

Been out 8am until 10 minutes ago so thought I might do an extra FD but tbh I am so cold I need some warming up so having some soup.

CuckooAtchooUhOh Wed 20-Nov-13 13:24:39

Thanks gang!

I have used mindfulness in the past and know what a powerful tool it can be, but will revisit for some more relevant ie from this currrent set of personal issues/state of mind.

I guess my point is, I am ok! Yes things are going a bit boobies up at home, but it has been a long time coming, and I don't feel any significant change to mood about it. In fact you could say I'm happier, because at least I have closure on the problems now and a decision has been made regarding future, which means I can plan. I would imagine it is pretty normal to feel a bit flat from time to time regardless. And if you have more on your mind, that may add to it! Positive thinking is such a huge part of beating depression, I feel like telling me I'm depressed is counter productive to all the effort I have been putting in to change thought patterns. I'm just having a few bad days and not sleeping brilliantly! Would've been nice to have had that listened to and accepted rather than trying to put a label on it, in order to explain cause of everything else!

Only new meds I'm taking BC are the anti-histamines and apparently continuing the omeprazole for stomach. Indefinitely it would seem! Too early to tell if anti-histamines are working, but I haven't felt any worse so that could be positive sign.

Anyway, BigChoc - you do crack me up! "I didn't make him cry"! LOL!

You are like a machine! Hanging from ropes doing press ups (snort) I love your energy, even if I do find it a bit shock shock shock. You obviously enjoy it though! Your enthusiasm leaps off the screen. I was going to add infectious to that last bit, but I'm not sure it is quite inspiring everyone else to reach your levels of gym worship yet! You nutter grin

Not overly articulate at mo so apologies for any nonsensical ramblings! rushes off to check definition of nonsensical

BeCool Wed 20-Nov-13 13:36:33

BigChoc maybe your appetite on NFD is affected by going so low on FD? Or is it the same if you hit 500 cals?

I'd like to try liquid FD's with fresh carrot juice and maybe a protein shake. But that will ahve to be nex week now.

M&S Chicken and vege soup for lunch - 240cals. it is yummy!

CuckooAtchooUhOh Wed 20-Nov-13 13:40:07

Yup, we're all good. wink

Toffee - You are Welcome!!

I was thinking about you a lot since your RL paranoia post. I have had odd mo of wondering just how many lurkers out there may be in close proximity to me!!

Not that it would be the be all and end all. But it would not be great from point of view of my separation status, in that neither my family nor dd, or anyone except thread knows. shock Oh, and 'him' obviously!

I think I might have solution though! What if we chuck in the odd red herring to throw any suspicious minds off scent???

For instance ..... I haven't mentioned this before, but I am actually a member of parliament.

I also think BigChoc is a Big Liar and actually hates chocolate. She has a really tiny appetite and a nut allergy. She is like Gilbert Grapes mum, and only gym she has visited recently is Jim the pizza delivery boy - at her front door!

....might have to rethink the details as GG mum prob didn't have tiny appetite hmm .....

........ but you catch my drift?...

Talkinpeace Wed 20-Nov-13 13:44:56

Cuckoo I post enough about myself that anybody who DOES know me will recognise me : I type as I talk (Laska will confirm that, she's met me) and as I never name change and have had the same name for 8 years ..... TBH I'm reasonably careful not to put anything that could really cause hassle but in the big scheme of things, if people are nosey, they will find out anyway.

We have to hope that MrF reads these threads as then he might sharpen up his act wink

BsshBossh Wed 20-Nov-13 13:49:24

FRRREEEEEEZZZZZZING It's a NFD, I work from home and have the heating on (thermostat 22), have been for long walk and gym, working at desk wearing two leggings, vest, long-sleeved thermal top, long-sleeved ti-shirt, sweatshirt, waffle dressing gown, sock slippers, woolly hat, wool scarf. I look very sexy. But am still cold.

Please tell me I'm not the only one?!?!

PS have had bloods done and no anemia, underactive thyroid, Raynaud's... Doc says it's just a symptom of having lost a lot of weight.

But I'd be reassured if I had company... so, am I alone?

CuckooAtchooUhOh Wed 20-Nov-13 13:54:31

Maybe he has Tip. Sounds like much improved behaviour from Mr F at last update.

It sometimes doesn't take a lot to make a huge difference, so long may it continue. nudge nudge

I think anyone who knows me in RL would be surprised at how down to earth I actually am being that I run the country.

CuckooAtchooUhOh Wed 20-Nov-13 14:01:34

You paint a very, very sexy picture Bssh

.....and I don't imagine I'm the only one thinking this when I say.......PICTURE!!! grin

And no, you most certainly are not alone.... I am hiding in your cupboard BOO!!!! wink
Sorry think the croutons in my cup-o-soup have gone to my head.

I am finding a continuous supply of hot drinks is only way I can cope on a fd, and I am by no means near your skinny proportions yet so I'm dreading what's to come!

BigChocFrenzy Wed 20-Nov-13 14:18:22

BeCool No, my NFD appetite was the same when I did 500 cals.

Also, back in spring when I lost my first 10 lb (I did several months 16:8 maintenance before resuming) I struggled to manage 800 cals and I was starving on NFDs. I did eat mindlessly then.

Now, I am not as hungry on NFDs and I mindfully eat only tasty food, including more healthy stuff - but I just love eating <pig alert>
However, at a healthy BMI, slow loss is ok for me.

BigChocFrenzy Wed 20-Nov-13 14:27:10

Bssh Great outfit !
I don't feel colder on even zero-cal FDs.
Probably past Frenzies have stored up warmth and energy.
Also, post-menopausal women tend not to feel cold, au contraire. I have few pm symptoms or hot flushes etc, but I warm up more quickly at cold temps, so a beneficial symptom maybe.

Maybe gym bunnying plus cycling everywhere also helps me.
Bssh Why not try a dozen pressups ? You'll soon be warm.
Interesting to compare differences on this thread, as we have all ages, bofy types, genders etc.

BigChocFrenzy Wed 20-Nov-13 14:29:08

Bofy types sounds intriguing, but I meant body types

BigChocFrenzy Wed 20-Nov-13 14:36:12

Bssh , Cuckoo Are you more economical with your heating rather than my poss spendthrift 23-25C ?

CuckooAtchooUhOh Wed 20-Nov-13 15:12:22

BigChoc - I can beat that. We have no heating! Well apart from few plug in oil radiators but I would bet my bottom dollar this house is nowhere near those temperatures. There is definitely a notable difference on fd in terms of feeling cold.

In fact I favour activity on fd's because it stops me from getting the munchies that inevitably hit when I am sat in one space studying. So you would think I would feel warmer because I am moving around. Come mid afternoon without fail, I start to get really cold.

In answer to your other question about the BJ. I have prob had equivalent of one tub in 3 weeks. I tend to go through phases with something. I'll have it so often, I tend to lose interest in it for a little while. I was at height of a BJ attack when de lurked. That and the recent discovery of the Peanut Butter Cup flavour. During summer it was more magnums. Til I started IF and realised how many cals I was popping pretty much every night after dinner!

Good ole choc is my thang at mo. But needs to be really yummy stuff. When I run out of something nice I sneer at the inferior stuff in cupboard - leftover funsize bars, biscuits etc.
I wouldn't call myself a choc snob, it just has to be a bit interesting/good quality.

Doesn't mean there isn't a constant supply replenishment of the BJ though when stocks diminish grin

All mon-thurs of course!

Am still on track today. Had a cup o soup as bouillon had run out. But still at 150 ish with coffees.

But is very tempting to have dinner of dd choice and curl up under blankets with her later to watch a movie as so flipping cold.

eatriskier Wed 20-Nov-13 15:46:29

Bssh You aren't alone. Though I'm quite cheap with my 20C heating it would seem (though that's 1C higher than DH and I's original compromise with him being a hot runner). I've had my hands in hot water and they're still like blocks of ice.

BetsyBell Wed 20-Nov-13 16:02:40

I think this would be a good point to do a new thread alert...

BetsyBell Wed 20-Nov-13 16:04:02





BetsyBell Wed 20-Nov-13 16:05:28

That should do it smile

Going to finish with with a HUGE HUG FOR LOVELY (((((( CUCKOO ))))))

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