Enjoys music but resistant to sightreading

[musicmaker1]

Definitely not in the same league as many of the kids in the music thread so deliberately haven't posted on the February thread. My DS has been playing the piano since he was 7 and is now 14. He also plays the cello since about the age of 9. The cello lessons were until recently with the school and with another pupil and very slow progress. His piano teacher is lovely but not a strict authoritarian and she's good at helping him play songs that he likes.

I think he's talented and he definitely has a good ear. He plays well but is very resistant to learning to read. He reads the bass clef for his Cello quite well but the piano is a struggle. He just hates doing it. He will get on You Tube and learn a song, he'll compose stuff on Garage Band and he genuinely loves playing and can just improvise on the piano, making up stuff that sounds amazing for half an hour to an hour without any pressure from us to practise. But no scales or sight reading exercises unless we make him and it is very unpleasant.

I just get the feeling that he's not going to progress well and has been stuck in a rut. I believe that his playing level on the piano is probably Grade 5/6 but he hates the idea of doing grades and the pressure of being 'tested' (I am not looking forward to the exam years)

I suppose we have gone with the idea that we don't want to drum the enjoyment out of it all. If he doesn't want to do Grades then fair enough. But I am getting frustrated that he's not going to be able to make the most of his talent unless he masters sight reading.

He's now getting private cello lessons and is coming along well. But the piano is at a bit of a standstill. I hear him trying out pieces by ear and I suggest he gets the music and learns it but he just clamps up and says he doesn't want to and then goes and starts playing something else.

We are not a classically trained family (although we are musical) and have never had the discipline ourselves as children. I feel I should be more of a tiger mum but I don't think I have it in me. He wants to do music as a subject and I'm hoping this will help him work at it and learn. I think he'll be at a disadvantage on the theory level from other pupils have done grades but hope he can catch up.

Has anyone else had a talented musical child that's resistant to sight reading? Any tips on how we can approach it and encourage more learning. Or should I not be bothered (Paul McCartney can't read music). He goes to a state school but he doesn't want to stand out so doesn't show what he can do in the lessons and the school doesn't encourage him. He got told off for getting ahead of what he was being told to do in a music lesson so he's never doing that again.

Sorry for the long windedness. Any tips appreciated

[pigshavecurlytails]

well firstly I'd be having a stern word with the music teacher about that attitude (of theirs, not his). I'd be wanting to know what they are doing to encourage him, can they arrange for him to play in assembly etc and I'd go ballistic at the telling off for getting ahead - involving the head of dept if necessary. Do they do the same for those who are ahead in maths?!

sight reading is just practice practice practice, there's no real way round it.

[andhardlyanywomenatall]

To help the discussion go well it can be useful to distinguish being able to “figure” out written music from being able to sight read it.

Sight-reading is a skill many people don’t master.

Tbh playing it straight on the cello whilst using a by-ear approach on the piano sounds like a good compromise.

The jazz exams have improvisation elements.

14 is a bad age to try to force this kind of change too...

Good luck.

[dodobookends]

I'm assuming that music is largely a hobby rather than a potential career, so I'd leave him to get on with it and enjoy himself. He doesn't need to take exams if he doesn't want to, they aren't necessary.

[musicmaker1]

Thanks all. And I agree that 14 is not the best age to be talking about this. Should have cracked the whip when he was 8 or 9 (or got a stricter teacher!) Main thing is he enjoys playing and is naturally musical and I don't ever want to make it a chore.

[ShackUp]

I teach music in a secondary school. I'd be delighted to have your DS in my class!

We have students doing A-level music who started reading music at the beginning of the course and are going great guns. Also, there are so many types of music degree out there, your DS could choose to take a more production/composition/engineering route if that's where his interest lies (rather than performing!).

[Seeline]

Do you mean sight reading - where you play the piece of music the first time you are given the manuscript without preparation, or do you mean he can't read music at all?
If it is the first then I wouldn't worry, especially if he isn't doing exams.
If it is the second I am surprised he hasn't picked it up in 7 years.
Personally I would love to be able to play by ear - I have to have the music and greatly admire such a talent in others.

[andhardlyanywomenatall]

It really is lovely to be able to play two different ways on two different instruments op....

ds1 learnt to sight read by being in an orchestra on cello. he can't sight read on guitar because he is not schooled in classical guitar methods - he learns rock guitar and rock guitar theory.

narrowing down is always a bit of a pity (though good for exams I admit)

[Mistigri]

At 14 I would just leave him to get on with it. He sounds talented, but not necessarily in the classical music sort of way.

If he can read music for cello there is literally nothing to stop him learning to read music for piano when he needs to. My DS only started his first instrument (guitar) at age 14 and he mainly uses "tab" rather than classical sheet music, but he also dabbles on piano and has taught himself to read the bass and treble clefs well enough to play classical pieces (he enjoys Bach). He has also started composing music for guitar and I noticed last week that he is now writing down his guitar compositions using classical notation. It may be that your son's interest in writing and improvisation will eventually lead him along the same path.

[LooseAtTheSeams]

Totally agree with Mistigri - 14 year old boys can be pretty stubborn! DS1 has a friend who is great at jazz piano and until very recently didn’t read music at all - he did everything by ear. He’s now learning with a teacher and picking up the sight reading but he’s in Y11 and in final year of GCSE music! Your DS is already ahead with the bass clef for cello.

[Trumpetboysmum]

You could have posted in the February music thread lots if our dcs hate sight reading - my ds being one of them . Because he wanted to do exams and auditions to get into orchestras he had to learn to do it but you don't have to do sight reading practice as such maybe playing in an orchestra or string group on the cello ? Or duets ( that he hasn't seen before) with his teacher- both of these have helped Ds massively. I'm totally with you on it being difficult to get teenage ds's to do anything they don't want to do - my ds can be very tricky at times ( massive understatement ). I would have thought your ds would he more than fine to do gcse music ds's school have a fab music department and hope that most students will be capable of performing at a grade 5 standard by the end of the course as that will get them most marks in that part of the exam - they don't need to have taken exams. Lots do GCSE music without the theory ( my ds is currently one of those pupils like I said it's difficult to motivate them to do stuff they don't really want to do !!) . It's tricky though when they are at school and feel that they can't show what they're capable of . I would have a word with the music department at parents evening

[Trumpetboysmum]

Also one of ds's friends at Aldeburgh Young Musicians ( scheme for talented musicians in the east of England) plays guitar and is only learning to read music now ( after he got in !!) Hope that makes you feel better there are so many ways to play and enjoy music - one size or approach definitely doesn't fit all

[ByTheSea]

My DD is 15 and a guitarist, prolific songwriter, singer, plays some piano, etc. She wants a career in music, especially writing songs. She is resistant to exams, got up to grade 3 and can't be asked. Can sight read a bit but not interested. People in the know say she plays at least at a grade 7 level. She is doing Music at GCSE and holds an unconditional offer to study Level 3 Music Performance (they advised she could do songwriting as well) at Access Creative College next school year. She is bright but again, hates exams, so can't wait to be done with GCSEs, even though she's predicted to do well.

She gigs and busks and her songs are really quite good. A lot of people tell us how talented she is and we agree there's talent there and support her in pursuing her goals. Through her music we have met a lot of professionals who have supported her and given advice. We have been advised that it's not that important to sight read these days unless you want to be in an orchestra or a session musician. Let's hope so.

[ByTheSea]

I also feel I don't belong on the other music threads as DD doesn't do exams.

[Trumpetboysmum]

Ds does exams - but I think they are overrated !! If they want to do them fine but first music should be about enjoyment!! I put my foot down about grade 8 this school year I just want him to enjoy playing!!

[thanksjaneshusbandatcaresouth]

BytheSea,

Your dd is an artist :)

[ByTheSea]

Thanks @thanksjaneshusbandatcaresouth.

[LooseAtTheSeams]

Just to add, I find with piano that I'm much less able to read ahead on sight reading now that I'm around grade 5 level - it's really hard to do everything! When I was around grade 2 I was much more impressive! Sigh.
Second what Alexandra said about joining the music thread - I have a teen who loves jazz and rock, doesn't do much classical as his focus now is all bass guitar and drumkit, with a bit of snare.

[Madcats]

I don't have any advice to give but I've been nosing around the ABRSM website before buying more music and spotted that they have some apps to help with learning.

One was for piano sight-reading grades 1-5 gb.abrsm.org/en/exam-support/practice-tools-and-applications/sight-reading-trainer/
It might be worth a try.

[MadameChauchat]

A couple of times I have inherited piano/violin pupils who had already passed a certain grade (in one case even grade 5) and were struggling hugely with sightreading, to the point that they could not learn a piece of lower grades independently at all. It's not that they can't read music, but the processing is just far too slow. I found that in such cases it really helps if you let them play lots of easy but fun pieces, each week at least one new piece, rather than let them work on a single hard piece at 'their level' for weeks on end.
The problem is that they don't always want to play pieces that are 'too easy' for them, so you have to choose music that sounds a bit impressive and certainly don't tell them what level it is! Playing lots of repertoire in my opinion works much better and is more enjoyable than only doing sightreading exercises from the exam syllabuses.

[elfonshelf]

Learning to read music is a good idea imo, but having a great ear and enjoying music is probably more important.

I can read music very well, but most people would pay NOT to have me play anything, DD (8) listens to things a few times on YouTube and just produces it back which seems a much better skill to me.

She is after a career in performing arts - she's mainly a singer, but also dances, acts and is learning guitar.

She trains at a very selective audition-entry school in dance and musical theatre as well as taking singing classes with a university professor. None of them care if she does exams at all in any of it - singing teacher is positively against them.

She regularly goes up for big West End roles and we are asked for details of training, but they have zero interest in exams or what grade she or any of the other children are at. Even when they get to university entry, for the PA courses it's how you perform on the day in the audition - you could have Grade 8 singing with distinction and not get in, and have never taken a music exam in your life and be what they are looking for. Even places like the Royal Ballet School don't care if you take exams - it's how you dance and how you are built that counts.

All the advice I have been given is to only bother if she desperately wants to do them, but otherwise to just encourage her to have fun. Doesn't mean that she skips the basics - 30 minutes a day are spent on scales and exercises before singing any songs, and the dance teachers want rock solid ballet technique.

We've found that she's wanting to learn to read music for the guitar lessons, and that is starting to be picked up in the singing, but she'd rather hear a piece and learn it that way rather than from looking at the sheet music.

FWIW, I know a couple of professional musicians who work consistently but can't read a single note. They do everything by ear.

[Musicmaker1]

Thanks so much everyone. So many good tips and advice.