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Ireland and your vote.

(700 Posts)
RuggerHug Sun 06-Oct-19 19:37:13

I am genuinely interested in all opinions here and I really hope that comes across. I don't want to start arguments or stir up hatred or insults. I've been on these boards for awhile and I know I've probably been quite ranty at times. I really want to not be here, so I'd like to ask everyone who voted, leave or remain, the following and I'd really appreciate your answers/thoughts.

Did ROI and NI play a part in your decision to vote whatever way?

Did the effect of a vote either way to NI and ROI occur at all, if so how?

Since the result, did anyone have a change of heart/become more sure of their vote based on what came out regarding ROI and NI afterwards?

Have you any thoughts on how we've been during it all/how our media portrays activities in the UK(if you're aware of what is said/shown here).

Hopefully this won't come across as trying to start a fight but, in all of this, did you care about us and the fallout or did you consider it not the UKs/anyone elses problem?

For disclosure, I'm Irish, in ROI, spent a lot of time at the border/in NI before the GFA, not as much after. Anyone I know in the UK that had a vote voted remain, I know 1 Leave voter(who lives in ROI).

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

dirtyrottenscoundrel Sun 06-Oct-19 19:46:08

Did ROI and NI play a part in your decision to vote whatever way?

No

Did the effect of a vote either way to NI and ROI occur at all, if so how?

No

But tbh op, I doubt many remainers here in England ( & probably Wales ) gave the Irish issue much thought, if any at all.
I mean, they’ll say they did now, but I doubt they did, for the simple reason it was hardly mentioned in all the campaigning.

GhostofFrankGrimes Sun 06-Oct-19 19:49:55

Yes, it did factor in my vote (remain) but then I’m an Irish citizen. In my 40 odd years I’ve rarely met someone from Britain who understood the first thing about NI.

RuggerHug Sun 06-Oct-19 19:54:54

Thanks dirtyrotten. It was noticed here in the lead up that no one in any debates or anything seemed to mention us. It was definitely yelled at the TV by a lot of us here so that's why I asked. If it just never made the media but was known or if it was no one was talking about it.

GhostofFrankGrimes Everyone I know in the UK who had a vote is Irish or married to an Irish person, think that's why.

Mistigri Sun 06-Oct-19 20:00:34

Shortly after the referendum I spent several hours watching Northern Ireland select committee meetings. It was extremely instructive.

Since then my opinion has been that as far as Brexit is concerned, the security of Northern Ireland in general and border communities in particular must take priority over all other political considerations.

lalalonglegs Sun 06-Oct-19 20:09:12

Yes - I visited some friends in Northern Ireland a few weeks before the referendum and they were talking about how dicey the situation could become over there if there was a hard border. I'm kind of embarrassed I didn't find out more about it before then. I remember there were warnings about how leaving the EU could cause sectarian tensions to ignite but nothing very specific about the actual technical difficulties of maintaining frictionless trade in the event of Brexit - and, iirc, Leavers were very quick to sneer at any suggestion that it would cause problems of any sort. I like the irony that the place so many chose to ignore is the thing that is now stopping Brexit from happening.

Danetobe Sun 06-Oct-19 20:12:43

I voted remain based only on NI issues. I was complacent during the campaign (and distracted- I had a family medical emergency) because I assumed no one would vote leave because of NI.

YeOldeTrout Sun 06-Oct-19 20:24:24

I don't recall thinking about Ireland at all in 2016. I just thought Leave would be a giant hassle in every way to almost everyone.

Mistigri Sun 06-Oct-19 20:29:45

I am pretty sure that if you were to look back at the old EU referendum forum on here you would find that NI was discussed at some length but that all concerns were shouted down by Leavers and in particular by Leave campaign shills.

Along with the situation of the British in Europe (anyone remember the bollocks about the Vienna convention?), Northern Ireland was THE thing they were most sensitive about. I believe that Cummings knew before the election how difficult and sensitive this point was.

Mistigri Sun 06-Oct-19 20:30:26

That last sentence should read "before the referendum"

leghairdontcare Sun 06-Oct-19 20:34:48

Nope, I didn't think about it all. I voted to remain and keep the status quo so I don't think the onus was on me to think about the GFA, the border etc and the other issues that choosing to leave has thrown up.

Voila212 Sun 06-Oct-19 20:45:06

I actually think the reason many British people didn't consider the affects Brexit would have on NI was due to the leave conservative mps. They just dismissed any concerns, even the NI Secretary Theresa Villiers stated that any concerns over the border was scared mongering.
SECRETARY of state Theresa Villiers has responded to growing concerns over border controls in Ireland in the event of Britain leaving the EU as "scaremongering".
'Ms Villiers claimed current trade arrangements between the UK and the Republic would be unhindered following an out vote.
Her remarks however appear to contradict those of fellow Brexit campaigner Lord Lawson who said "there would have to be border controls" following a leave vote in the June referendum.
Speaking on Sunday, Ms Villier's however insisted that there would be no changes along the border.
"I believe that the land border with Ireland can remain as free-flowing after a Brexit vote as it is today," she said.
"There is no reason why we have to change the border arrangements in the event of a Brexit because they have been broadly consistent in the 100 years since the creation of Ireland as a separate state.
"It's in the interest of both countries to keep an open border and there's no reason for that to change if the people of this country were to exercise their freedom to vote to leave the EU," she told Sky News' Murnaghan show.

RuggerHug Sun 06-Oct-19 20:45:24

I don't think the onus was on anyone except those who put forward the question without thinking the consequences through! I didn't mean asking to come across as though I was blaming anyone for voting!

rosie39forever Sun 06-Oct-19 20:51:08

Op most of the people who voted on the mainland didn't give the island of Ireland a second thought and sadly most still don't . To this day a hell of a lot of people done remotely understand the history of the UK and the Republic of Ireland as it's not taught in schools so when it came to the referendum it wasn't remotely on our radar. I have to say i only have a clue because my best friend is from the Republic and I also have close connections to the Birmingham Pub Bombings otherwise my vote would have had nothing to do with it.

CactusAndCacti Sun 06-Oct-19 20:58:09

I didn't think about it because I didn't realise it would be an issue, it just wasn't mentioned.

I think now it is a case of 'not bothered as doesn't effect me'

(Not 'me' as in actually the viewpoint of cactus but 'me' in a general sense)

Oakenbeach Sun 06-Oct-19 20:59:30

To my shame I never considered Ireland in the referendum... As it happened I voted Remain, I don’t imagine it crosses the mind of 95%+ of non-NI voters either, let alone be a determining factor in their vote.

Oakenbeach Sun 06-Oct-19 21:02:18

But besides, with a soft-Brexit, or even with the backstop, the issues for NI peace aren’t aggravated. It’s only the DUP and Tories who seem determine to undermine it, and with its peace and (ironically) the union they claim to champion.

TheMShip Sun 06-Oct-19 21:13:02

I don't recall if it was part of my thinking in voting remain. It's too long ago and I've learned so much about the topic since, I don't trust my memories. I'm also not British by birth and moved here several years after the GFA was signed, so I never experienced what it was like during the Troubles. From what I've learned, any border on the island of Ireland is a very bad idea and I'm glad the EU are holding firm with the Republic of Ireland and the people and politicians of Northern Ireland (apart from the DUP who have always opposed the GFA).

crankysaurus Sun 06-Oct-19 21:22:03

Yes, the NI border was one of my main reasons for voting remain. I did read up on it all beforehand but also my DH had served in Belfast in the late 90s and my mum is Irish, so probably I had more awareness.

TalbotAMan Sun 06-Oct-19 21:33:16

I have dual nationality being the child of English and Irish parents. I have lived all my life in England but I have a lot of Irish relatives.

I did think about the effect on Ireland. I have no issue with the basic idea that Ireland and the UK may have different interests. Ultimately, I came to the view that as the UK population is 12 times that of Ireland, and is where I live, I should cast my vote according to my view of what was best for the UK. If I were voting in a similar referendum in Ireland*, I would probably choose what I thought best for Ireland.

* [I do appreciate that as a member of the Irish diaspora, I don't have a vote there unless I take up residence.]

bellinisurge Sun 06-Oct-19 21:34:58

95% of why I voted Remain. I posted about it but on here as did others prior to the referendum only to be jumped on for being too niche/giving into terrorism/not understanding the will of the people.

RuggerHug Sun 06-Oct-19 21:35:55

Interesting mix. Tbh since the vote and what I've seen, I can understand somewhat why it wasn't in people's minds. I've seen lots of people talk about how it's just not taught in schools so anyone who wasn't watching it on the news or had relatives over here(either living full time or serving to be clear!) just wasn't aware.

I also saw a comment(not on mumsnet) from someone saying how much they were enjoying Derry Girls but that it wasn't realistic because of the army and things they spoke about.

HerSymphonyAndSong Sun 06-Oct-19 21:36:51

Yes I did, but only because I read about it on the referendum threads on here in posts by people who did consider what a disaster brexit would be for the island of Ireland. I would not have thought of it for myself and it was one of many reasons for voting remain rather than the main one for me at the time (I have since realised the magnitude of it in comparison to many other reasons)

BestIsWest Sun 06-Oct-19 21:39:22

Yes, among other things, it was one of the reasons I voted Remain. I posted on FB the morning after the referendum that we’d see the UK torn apart.

lonelyplanetmum Sun 06-Oct-19 21:40:58

Did ROI and NI play ^*a part^ in your decision to vote whatever way?*

Yes

Did the effect of a vote either way to NI and ROI occur at all, if so how?

Yes

I only gave Ireland quite a lot of thought because I did loads of reading up before voting in the ref. I realised I didn't really get the difference between the single market and customs union. I didn't understand what the Norway option was that Farage was banging on about. I didn't know if immigration was a net benefit or detriment to the economy and I didn't get how borders could work at the channel and in Ireland. So I did loads of reading - well on and off about eight hours worth over a week or so. I then got sidetracked into reading up on the GFA and how NI dual citizenship stuff worked .

So at the end of that I knew remain made the most sense and that anything else opened a can of worms on the island of Ireland. But that was still only one factor, post war peace, the economy, the pluses of unrestricted access to the significant trading bloc - all of that was hugely significant too.

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