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Westminstenders: Promises, promises

(963 Posts)
RedToothBrush Mon 05-Aug-19 23:26:22

Today polling showed that there was a majority in Scotland who support Independence. The 'Boris Bounce' really isn't universal. And this is a firm sign all is not well.

There is talk tonight that Johnson is planning to stay on as PM even if he loses a vote of no confidence in order to force No Deal through and prevent a government of national unity. Instead he would call a 'people v politicians' general election to be held shortly after we'd left the EU.

Johnson's willingness to defy parliament should not be discounted and should be taken seriously. Its highly likely in one way or another. No deal is technically illegal, but its also the default. This does not seem to be fully recognised by remainers. But this is a man who lied and continued to lie. And there is every sign that he would be willing to cause some sort of constitutional crisis. Especially if he really is like Trump. This is what authoritarians do - defy convention and rip up the rule book - because the powers that are suppose to hold them to account are too weak to hold them to account. Something that Johnson has already proved time and again. He has no respect for others.

All the signs are Johnson is in fully into campaigning for a GE already. He's touring the country and ignoring Europe. He's offering money for the NHS - its open to debate whether this is new money - the optics on this are all down to what you want to believe. Those who want Johnson will believe the promise; those who don't won't.

The penny hasn't fully dropped in parliament. There is talk of a vote of no confidence being called by Labour 'at the earliest opportunity' in September. The reality is its too little too late and is unlikely to work to have the desired effect and inside will play right into Johnson's plan. The failure of the Opposition to spot what he was likely to do, has been the story of the last 3 years, where Remainers have been reactionary and unable to anticipate what would happen next. Their lack of imagination and inability to look beyond their own rhetoric has been their undoing and may cost us all in the long run.

Meanwhile in Brussels, the EU unlike our Parliament have recognised the inevitability of no deal and if Johnson wants no deal there is no way to stop it. And that he has no inclination whatsoever to negotiate.

The expectation is still that the EU will have the backstop and the Brexit Bill of £39 billion as the requirement for the opening of trade talks if we no deal.

Which leaves up shit creek.

At the same time the new trade minister Liz Truss is full on libertarian and talking to the US with this in mind.

That would mean a bonfire of rights and standards which will horrify many. That means goodbye to workers rights, food standards and data protection.

The tech giants have the ears of Washington so British ideas of a tax on them are being seen as a block on a US trade deal.

It comes as the UK has joined a US coalition to protect ships in the Gulf - something we were originally given a snub against, and led to Jeremy Hunt saying we would join a European led force. Its not clear what, who or how the US uturn has come about...

Meanwhile our summer holidays are all getting more expensive... and this is just the start of it.

This is real. This isn't a bluff.

Motheroffourdragons Tue 06-Aug-19 07:54:15

PMK - thanks Red

NoWordForFluffy Tue 06-Aug-19 07:48:58

My fucking useless MP won't do anything. He can't even read emails properly.

Hazardtired Tue 06-Aug-19 07:48:40

Also inwardly screaming.

Leaving DP to sleep in while I get my head straight.


Yeah I can't get my head straight because this is fucking nuts.

PostNotInHaste Tue 06-Aug-19 07:43:03

The Not in My Name campaign. I will shut up now and go and get caffeine so I wake up.

PostNotInHaste Tue 06-Aug-19 07:41:07

And base it on emotion, not facts.

PostNotInHaste Tue 06-Aug-19 07:39:21

We need to create social media and general noise. We need a series of Marches across the country so that everyone can get to , all at the same time- not just one central one. My 84 year old neighbour who voted Leave but has changed her mind can’t do London but she might just be able to go somewhere local.

New petition against No deal. Letter writing campaign to local MP and Johnson. Noise and lots of it. And possibly some inconvenience to people for a short period but not sure what. Poll tax was over turned, the stakes for this are so much higher.

Rhubarbisevil Tue 06-Aug-19 07:32:50

I agree with you Post but what can we do? We will be dismissed, laughed at, demeaned and ridiculed. The only think I can think of doing is to join the Tories and attend the party conference, take a swipe at Boris and be arrested. I will then be labelled as mentally unwell (because I’m white - otherwise I’d be a terrorist), Boris will say “I have this effect on all women”, everyone will laugh and that will be the end of it.

NoWordForFluffy Tue 06-Aug-19 07:30:37

The October march needs some serious publicising. I hope there are buses going again as I'll definitely be on one if there is.

PostNotInHaste Tue 06-Aug-19 07:27:10

Well this is incredibly depressing. What makes it worse is the feeling of seeing impending disaster coming and having to sit back and do absolutely nothing. Really feel the need to do something but there doesn’t seem to be anything. Protests don’t really work but the petition and the March did seem to temporarily change the mood.

We can not sit back and let this happen without a fight, we won’t forgive ourselves and our children won’t. I am a Grandchild of the generation who voted in the Nazis so I speak from experience. I know everyone is exhausted with all this but this is our last chance to not go down without a fight, a short period of time between now and 31 October.

What can be done I don’t know but we have to try and there are many better brains than me . We need to make life hard for Johnson, he’s relying on the general apathy of the British currently to have an easy ride right up to 31 October and it’s just not acceptable. Sorry for rant, off to find my blood pressure tablets whilst I still have them.

CrunchyCarrot Tue 06-Aug-19 07:20:46

Thanks, Red.

It's dreadful. I'm inwardly screaming. What is wrong with the Labour Party, why so silent?? Where the fuck are they? Bloody hell. angry

NoWordForFluffy Tue 06-Aug-19 07:20:06

Same here, Bellini.

Is there any way that Parliament can bring the WA back itself to vote for it? I'm sure there's not.

Everyone who voted against the Cherry amendment should be fucking ashamed of themselves right now. Corbyn especially for whipping against it.

NoWordForFluffy Tue 06-Aug-19 07:18:21

All of this, 'We must do as the people voted', blah blah blah is more hypocrisy from the man if he's then going to ignore a VoNC. He's a hideous man. Evil.

bellinisurge Tue 06-Aug-19 07:16:52

I can't believe I'm starting to pin all my hopes on the Queen. I am plugging away at my hope that Parliament can stop No Deal.
I can tolerate an orderly Brexit just not No Deal.

Rhubarbisevil Tue 06-Aug-19 07:11:53

I lifted it from the Sky News app this morning sad

I do feel that there will be riots pre- and post 31 October. Boris must be the ultimate Narcissist, don’t you think? A true psycho who is only out for his own glory. Well, I hope History remembers him as the man he truly is angry

Lisette1940 Tue 06-Aug-19 07:04:06

Rhubarbisevil confused what a picture

NoWordForFluffy Tue 06-Aug-19 07:03:25

What they're planning / doing should be a criminal offence. They KNOW it's a disaster. They KNOW that it's going to fuck the country up for decades. Yet they're doing it anyway. It really is a criminal act in my mind.

twofingerstoEverything Tue 06-Aug-19 07:02:30


Rhubarbisevil Tue 06-Aug-19 06:56:06

Really feel like crying.

And this picture doesn’t help sad

NoWordForFluffy Tue 06-Aug-19 05:34:03

A worried PMK. This is utterly bonkers, isn't it?

borntobequiet Tue 06-Aug-19 05:28:38

Placemarking, thanks Red.
Best cat pic I could manage at such an early hour

mathanxiety Tue 06-Aug-19 05:12:34

Thank you RTB.


Whisky2014 Tue 06-Aug-19 05:04:39


Lisette1940 Tue 06-Aug-19 04:50:49

PMK. Thanks Red. God help us.

Icantreachthepretzels Tue 06-Aug-19 02:22:16

Oh how I would love Boris Johnson to not only be the shortest reigning PM in history, but the first PM since 1834 to be dismissed by the monarch.

I would hope that the incoming education secretary would get those two facts included in the GCSE history curriculum with immediate effect - and a note attached that these two facts must never be removed from the syllabus.Just for the lolz really.

Hazardtired Tue 06-Aug-19 00:33:03

I have questions Google can't answer shock

Google did throw this up

But the Sunday Telegraph is missing four vital points. First, the Prime Minister who decides the date might not be Boris Johnson. Secondly, a new Prime Minister might win a no confidence vote thus averting any election. Thirdly, Parliament might pass an Act amending section 2(7). And fourthly the Prime Minister is subject to judicial review in exercising the section 2(7) power.

The first point is fundamental. The UK Prime Minister is not elected, either by the electorate or by Parliament. The Prime Minister is appointed by the Queen. The Queen by convention appoints someone believed to be able to command the confidence of the House of Commons, but that person does not need to win a vote in the Commons before being appointed and even if that person subsequently loses a vote of confidence, he or she remains Prime Minister until either resignation or dismissal. As a result, it is perfectly possible for someone other than Boris Johnson to be Prime Minister at the end of the 14 days and for that person to choose an earlier date for the election.

How might someone else be appointed Prime Minister? We can discount the standard method that the existing Prime Minister resigns and in doing so advises the Queen to appoint a specific person as successor, since the whole scenario assumes that Boris Johnson is aiming to be Prime Minister at the end of the 14 days. The situation would be that Johnson, having lost the confidence of the House, simply squats at Number 10. Can anything be done to dislodge him? The answer is technically yes. The Queen can dismiss him. Admittedly no monarch has exercised this power since 1834, and it was a bit of a disaster then, and the Queen would almost certainly not exercise it if there was any chance that an incoming Prime Minister would fail to command the confidence of the House.

Some will argue that the Queen should do nothing even if an alternative majority exists since the most democratic way out of the dilemma is to let the electorate decide the issue. But this line of argument faces two big objections. First, ruling out a new government frustrates the intention of the 2011 Act, which allows for that possibility. Secondly, the issue for the electorate to decide is above all Brexit and if Johnson intends, as we now know, to time the election so that the electorate cannot decide Brexit, the democratic argument for doing nothing falls away. Johnson, a Prime Minister lacking the confidence of the House, would have decided, not the people. The Queen might agree to do nothing if Johnson agrees to hold the election at the earliest possible date, but that would also foil the plan.

It's a mediumish read with a lot of detail and if someone could explain it into stupid that would be great!

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