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Do British understand how negotiation works?

(98 Posts)
Juells Sun 04-Aug-19 07:28:00

Skimming the front pages of Sunday's newspapers on the Sky website, I was struck by the offering from the Mail.
storify.com/services/proxy/2/ONg9_h6-BXq4WgxPp5sn8Q/https/media.fyre.co/e74WQJOQSprxUyUqGAxw_mail.JPG
"Boris opens EU hostilities" confused

From the outset, the UK has adopted a really aggressive stance in the negotiations, making jokes about cherry picking, having cake and eating it, using every insulting term for the EU it was possible to think of. Fury when the EU negotiated in its own interests rather than seeing everything from the UK's viewpoint.

Who negotiates trade deals like that? I'm bewildered, genuinely, can't understand it. Why is the British government approaching it in such a weird way? Trade deals are based on good will and mutual benefit.

To the rest of the EU, two things stand out. First, David Davis's laughing rejection of an agreement that had been signed hours before, his explanation to the British press that it wasn't legally binding. Secondly, the British attitude that the Good Friday Agreement can be ignored once it's inconvenient. An international agreement, which the British signed up to; on which peace in NI depends.

Who insults the people with whom they want a good deal? How can anyone trust your word?

MaxNormal Sun 04-Aug-19 07:40:55

I'm absolutely baffled by this as well, not to mention furious and deeply embarrassed. It appears that our current "negotiating" tactics are along the lines of shouting "fuck you Johnny Foreigner".
I can only assume it's designed for failure.

Whoseagooddoggiethen Sun 04-Aug-19 07:43:59

Im Irish and not shocked. The rest of the world has been commenting on British arrogance for years even before your brexit farce. This thread should be removed before it takes off cos it will not end well.

dimsum123 Sun 04-Aug-19 07:49:18

I'm incredulous at the way we've handled 'negotiations'. Our arrogance and delusion are breathtaking. It's highly embarrassing and childish. I cringe at being identified as a brit these days.

BeardedMum Sun 04-Aug-19 07:50:03

Agree baffling, shocking and mortifying.

MaxNormal Sun 04-Aug-19 07:51:46

We are going campervanning in Europe at the end of the month. I'll be making sure I have a Saltire sticker on the van.

raindropsonwindows Sun 04-Aug-19 08:00:18

It's not just the arrogance but the fact that no one knows what "leave" means so neither side has ever known what they are negotiating around. What are the red lines which have the support of the cabinet, Parliament and 52% of the country? What are the nice-to-haves? What do we really not care about? What are the consequences of any of these?
It seems to me that we walked in, said we're leaving, asked how we should do it, had a tantrum when they suggested an option but still haven't said what we want. It's extraordinary.

ThomasRichard Sun 04-Aug-19 08:03:58

Yes it’s embarrassing. BBC News has a story today on Boris threatening the EU with a no-deal Brexit if they don’t negotiate. Who does he think would be more badly affected in that scenario? confused

EngTech Sun 04-Aug-19 08:05:41

If politicians thought it was important, they would be arguing for a recall of Parliament as they are on Summer recess till 3 September.

With the Governments majority down to one, plus a few MP’s thinking about crossing the floor, it will get very interesting in the days when Parliament resumes.

GE with a delay to Brexit again? JC in No 10 with no overall majority unless the SNP, LD’s form an alliance with JC ?

And the political elite wonder why the people don’t trust them

Come the GE, if people want to vote to stay in the EU, vote for a party that campaigns on that.

Hmmm, LD’s in No. 10, now that would be interesting and not just a junior party 😬

EssentialHummus Sun 04-Aug-19 08:10:09

“Designed to fail” for me too. My lowest point actually was going on holiday to Holland over xmas and seeing that they’d set up a special governmental department to advise individuals and businesses potentially affected by Brexit, with a helpline, website etc. We don’t (or didn’t) have that in England, where the need for this kind of clarity is much more acute. I felt embarrassed by where I live.

PostNotInHaste Sun 04-Aug-19 08:11:44

Doesn’t surprise me. Bit like when I wanted to buy a house and the estate agent said the seller was thinking of doing sealed bids. We made an offer that was a good offer and said that was our offer and if it went to sealed bids we weren’t interested, it went to sealed bids, we found another house.

4 more phone calls from the Estate Agent, including one an hour after the sealed bid deadline - all asking if we were submitting a bid. Each time I repeated what I had said previously - no our bid was rejected and we have moved on. Clearly they hadn’t believed we had said what we meant and thought we were game playing as appeared to think everyone does it and were arrogant enough to think they could play us . There’s this fixed mentality that if you game play enough you’ll get what you want in the end .

I cringe when I read the papers but not a lot surprises me any more. I think of Johnson in the same league as a dodgy estate agent as best but unfortunately as he is in charge he’s a dangerous one.

sashh Sun 04-Aug-19 08:11:46

I think British people understand it but the Tory party doesn't.

Kittenance Sun 04-Aug-19 08:18:25

@Juells you are quite right about the buffoons currently running the show but please understand that they do not and never have had majority support and they got where they are through lying and deceit. Please don't take this awful behaviour as defining all British people. We need rescuing from them.

airforsharon Sun 04-Aug-19 08:21:24

If politicians thought it was important, they would be arguing for a recall of Parliament as they are on Summer recess till 3 September.

This. I understand a] MPs & their staff need a break and b] they use some of the recess time to tackle constituency work. BUT they are in the middle of the biggest political & economic shake-up/shitstorm (depending on your view) which is time sensitive - given we are now legally obliged to leave on the 31st of Oct - and far from being organised.

I'm boggling it's been deemed ok for the whole summer recess to be taken as usual, and while i'm sure many are still working hard on this behind the scenes it does give the rather arrogant impression that the withdrawal agreement is not being taken anywhere near as seriously as it should be.

Theworldisfullofgs Sun 04-Aug-19 08:23:15

We're idiots and we vote for idiots.

Well some of us.

EngTech Sun 04-Aug-19 08:31:14

Airforsharon My thoughts exactly

If BJ does not deliver Brexit on October 31, he, the Conservatives will be be in the political wilderness for a fair few years.

Europe will call our bluff, that is when it gets interesting but both sides will loose.

Come the GE, I have no idea who to vote for as I don’t believe anything they say 😬

Suitcasecoveredincathair Sun 04-Aug-19 08:31:25

it does give the rather arrogant impression that the withdrawal agreement is not being taken anywhere near as seriously as it should be

Certainly my view from abroad, and even as a lifelong Anglophile, the country as a whole is coming across as unhinged. It’s not even a question of whether one thinks leaving or remaining is better, it’s the way the politicians are going about it. Surely if they were serious about leaving with the best possible deal they’d be being friendly and working WITH all their closest neighbours? Finding the best way out of the situation?

Instead it’s more like, “We’re British, now fuck off!” hmm

No offence intended whatsoever, whatever your standpoint on Brexit this has to be painful to watch.

Whoseagooddoggiethen Sun 04-Aug-19 08:37:18

EngTech Europe are calling no bluffs. Europe you will still be part of. The EU is what i assume you are referring to are also not calling bluffs. This is not a point scoring exercise. One group of countries (divided kingdom i think rather than united at this point) made a decision to leave the european economic community and cannot give logical reasons why nor logical lists of wishes. This is once again NOT the fault if the EU nor any other country involved. Not EU fault, not Irelands fault - literally a UK fault and issue and blaming others shows lack of understanding.

Suitcasecoveredincathair Sun 04-Aug-19 08:51:26

I didn’t read EngTech’s post as blaming anyone else confused

StealthPolarBear Sun 04-Aug-19 08:55:04

Thomas Richard apparently they need us more than we need them and other such bollocks

Whoseagooddoggiethen Sun 04-Aug-19 08:55:57

No sorry her comment on europe got on my goat and my post evolved into a rant from that. Sorry Engtech! The rest of my post stands though. Westminster is a narcissist refusing to accept responsibility and throwing insults instead of proper reasonings.

DuchessDumbarton Sun 04-Aug-19 08:56:10

Whoseagooddoggiethen I agree about "calling our bluff".
It's so immature as a negotiating tactic.

If the UK wishes to leave the EU, well OK then. I'd rather that you didn't but, you know, if that's what you've decided then, let's figure out how that is going to work. In particular, let's ensure that it causes the minimum of disruption to both sides, so that cordial relations remain in the aftermath.

However, THAT appears to be too reasonable for Leavers.
To a sympathetic but non-British person's point of view, the whole endeavour seems to be about stirring up as much resentment as possible.

Perhaps pro-Brexiters hope that anti-EU and/or anti-Irish resentment will give a locus for national unity???

PostNotInHaste Sun 04-Aug-19 08:56:52

I didn’t read EngTech’s posts as blaming anyone else either.

EngTech Sun 04-Aug-19 08:59:16

Whoseagod. What Suitcasecover said 😎

IheartNiles Sun 04-Aug-19 09:03:12

Our politicians are embarrassing and inept. We’d be better off governed by civil servants. It’s like we’ve been taken hostage by buffoons.

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