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Germany's economy in freefall

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urbanlife Fri 26-Jul-19 06:58:34

So leaving on WTO terms looks like a very sound choice. Germany props up the entire EU superstate pretty much.

I for one am feeling much more optimistic by the day.

OP’s posts: |
dreichhighlands Mon 29-Jul-19 16:46:54

We have EU national friends, they have a house, friends, dc who are settled in school with friends. It is a huge upheaval to leave.
We have expated a couple of times and even with full company support it is very hard work and very disruptive.

Hazardtired Mon 29-Jul-19 16:23:55

I'm glad so many EU nationals are saying the truth like nodarcyno we are all Europeans here. The distortion of language in the lead up and post ref has become so ingrained.

But anyway...

Any news on that comprehensive list of life saving medications being stockpiled? I've heard the purse strings are open but I'm assuming it's still mostly down to the private companies?

No? No one? Anyone?

Songsofexperience Mon 29-Jul-19 12:59:38

The reality of immigration, like it or not, is that often there is no going back

Songsofexperience Mon 29-Jul-19 12:56:54

If it were me I would have just thought "sod off" and be gone.

Have you ever moved, looked for a job in a different city, juggled the hassle of finding new schools, new accommodation etc., faced the issue of your partner or DH or yourself not necessarily finding an equivalent job in the same location, leaving your friends and support network behind and so on and so forth? If you have, you'll agree it's a huge pain, isn't it? Try doing it whilst living in a different country- where do you even start? Think how expensive and time consuming it is to set up a new life elsewhere.
I'm always amazed how flippant people are regarding others' lives. Trust me though, EU people living in their own countries come out with the same comment and it infuriates me just as much.
Those who can easily go are the ones sent by foreign companies as expats- not the same thing- and the few I happen to know were all moving this summer.

bellinisurge Mon 29-Jul-19 12:14:21

They are going to avoid any legislation through Parliament for that reason. So much for our sovereign parliament. Which was elected by the people after the referendum.

probstimeforanewname Mon 29-Jul-19 12:12:25

Dominic Raab said in an interview with the Times on Saturday that they wouldn't bring forward the legislation because it would get hijacked.

Any excuse.

bellinisurge Mon 29-Jul-19 12:07:57

There's no legislation for it afaik. In fact Johnson has deliberately avoided putting it in.

howwudufeel Mon 29-Jul-19 09:59:05

I thought that people who are currently resident here have been told they can stay?

Peregrina Mon 29-Jul-19 09:28:56

If it were me I would have just thought "sod off" and be gone.

I can immediately think of ten families where they can't just say 'sod off'. One partner is British and the other not. Would the Briton be able to get the same work in the other's country? Having married and lived here for 45 years could you really uproot, especially if the ties you had to your original country have gone? I know at least two couples like this - parents and siblings in the home country are dead, so what is there to take people back? So for a lot of people it's presenting huge dilemmas.

For those who are not already here and thinking of applying - yes, why bother when other countries are easier to get into and more welcoming?

probstimeforanewname Mon 29-Jul-19 08:56:19

I wasn't othering you, I was asking why you'd put up with the crap from the British government if you didn't have to - which you've explained. If it were me I would have just thought "sod off" and be gone.

bellinisurge Sun 28-Jul-19 19:28:12

Tbe NHS has always depended upon immigrant staff. My Mum came here in the late 1940s when NHS was new to do the work they couldn't get British people to do.
Bonus for me is that am automatically an Irish citizen thanks to her being Irish born even though her entire working life and tax paying was here in UK.

NoDarcyNo Sun 28-Jul-19 17:16:23


We have our communities here, spouses, family and friends, not all them British. We have our careers, our mortgages, our lives.

Some of us have lived here for more than 45 years, our children are British. Some of us simply like it here, it's home, as simple as that.

Some of us even became British to secure our futures.

The way we have been treated and are being treated by the British government is outrageous, yet we stay because........ it's our home.

We came here legally, not as immigrants but as fellow EU citizens, one of you. We participate and contribute, we have roots, please don't other us by saying you don't get why we haven't left yet. It is hurtful and adds insult to injury.

probstimeforanewname Sun 28-Jul-19 17:07:58

What surprises me isn't that no EU citizens with useful skills still want to come to the UK but why so many of them are still here after 3 years of the UK government being unhelpful about their status and bringing in the settled status scheme (to be balanced, there were two letters in the Sunday Times today from people who'd used the system and been approved without any complications). If I had the choice of 30 odd other countries to live in, I would have been off by now. I realise some will stay because they are married to Brits but I suspect many could be much more mobile.

howwudufeel Sun 28-Jul-19 16:48:34

I think mature students or people with experience in nursing. I also think they will take students with slightly lesser grades if they went to schools with poor results. Apparently these courses are already hugely oversubscribed.

ChiaSeeds Sun 28-Jul-19 16:46:18

howwudufeel What does non traditional mean here? blush

People with degrees in Anthropology or non middle class / state school?

Peregrina Sun 28-Jul-19 16:42:45

I absolutely agree Kazzyhoward. It's a scandal that we have always chosen not to train sufficient medical staff, preferring to poach them from elsewhere. In an ideal world we would train more than sufficient and have enough so that we could sent people out to other countries where there are desperate shortages.

howwudufeel Sun 28-Jul-19 16:40:41

New courses are starting this year designed to train people from non traditional backgrounds as doctors. Very long overdue.

Kazzyhoward Sun 28-Jul-19 16:27:55

The UK has a shortage of drs with specialisms (so doctor +++ of you like) and has for a few years. Has brexit put off potential EU nationals from applying for the roles that have been left empty for a long time?

We've had a shortage of all kinds of doctors for decades. It's nothing new. The real travesty is that successive governments have not resourced anywhere near enough training places, not helped by medical unions objecting to proposed increases in training places. There's no shortage of students - some medical schools have been reporting courses oversubscribed by a factor of 10 (from people meeting their minimum requirements) hence why they select on the basis of who's been digging wells in Africa or climbing the Himalayas or doing 100 hours of unpaid work per week in local care homes.

Peregrina Sun 28-Jul-19 16:12:02

Brexit is going to be so absolutely wonderful, so why didn't the Polish singer want to bring her German boyfriend here and get him to encourage his friends to come too? Give us a hundred examples Clavinova and we might begin to believe your arguments.

Clavinova Sun 28-Jul-19 15:58:20

Anecdotal data can point to trends.

Trends of a 'remainer plot' by the media?

There was a report earlier this year (possibly the Guardian) - a scientist who was supposedly leaving Edinburgh University because of Brexit - and relocating to Germany. I looked her up (German website) - she had won a research grant that hadn't previously been open to scientists outside of Germany, with an Institute she had a long association with - and the grant came with 'personal prize money' of over £70,000 - would you turn that opportunity down?

There was also the Polish singer who felt unwelcome in the UK (she was promoting her 'Brexit song') - she gave a different interview to a music platform - her 'real' reason for moving back to Poland was because she had met the 'love of her life' on the German/Polish border - he's German.

Hazardtired Sun 28-Jul-19 15:28:57

The UK has a shortage of drs with specialisms (so doctor +++ of you like) and has for a few years. Has brexit put off potential EU nationals from applying for the roles that have been left empty for a long time?

Please someone cut and paste something proving EU doctors with specialisms have not been out off applying for roles here.

Peregrina Sun 28-Jul-19 15:24:45

Anecdotal data can point to trends.

As for suitable candidates - where are they though? If people report that a vacancy has been left unfulfilled because no suitable candidates came forward, Clavinova will cut and paste an example to try to prove that in one department they were lucky and had a choice of candidates.

Clavinova Sun 28-Jul-19 15:18:50

Researchers who have previously moved to the UK due to EU freedom are now choosing to leave.

Anecdotal evidence.

I saw some stats recently that showed the percentage of EU doctors in the UK is roughly the same as it was before the referendum (not true of nurses, although other factors at play here: language test introduced in 2016, Spain's improved economy, unattractive pay/hours.)

Others are choosing locations other than the UK to move to.
Again, anecdotal - and that doesn't mean they can't be replaced with equally suitable candidates.

Hazardtired Sun 28-Jul-19 15:18:31

Yeah the best medicine to inflammatory threads is tumbleweeds because when it's post no deal brexit and your arthritic knee is inflamed you'll rub a tumbleweed on it and be cured.

Facts wink

Peregrina Sun 28-Jul-19 14:28:10

That was my point though - you were saying that the researchers had been driven out because of Brexit.

While you were trying to be oh so clever with your cut and paste examples, you missed the point. I agree I should have spelt it out simply - these people have gone early. They are very unlikely to come back. If for their next step up in their work the choice is going to a lab in Germany or France with no more formality than passing the interview, or applying for a job in England and then having to obtain a visa, possibly having to satisfy an immigration quota and being refused and having to apply again at more expense, who is going to bother?

My DS was told that those who were in post before 29th March, the original Brexit deadline, would have their right to stay honoured. Who knows what it will be like for those who might have been looking to take up a post elsewhere in the EU in the next couple of years?

But please don't allow real examples to trump your cut and paste examples.

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