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Ethical Spending

(133 Posts)
KennDodd Sun 21-Jul-19 17:24:41

What Brexit supporting businesses can I boycott? And what anti Brexit ones can I support? I already know about Next, Wetherspoons and Dyson.

SingingBabooshkaBadly Sun 21-Jul-19 17:50:17

Hello Kenn

Other than the pro-Brexit companies you’ve already mentioned only Superdrug and JCB spring to mind (so no new diggers for you!).

I know the boss of Superdry (confusingly close to Superdrug) contributed a lot of money to the People’s Vote campaign.

twofingerstoEverything Sun 21-Jul-19 18:23:33

list here including Patisserie Valerie, Tate & Lyle, Butlins, Next etc etc

Thistimetomorrow Sun 21-Jul-19 19:13:22

Whilst it is everyone’s choice where they choose to spend their money by boycotting companies supporting Leave, it is also putting people who work for these companies jobs in jeopardy. For this reason I will not be boycotting anyone whether they support Leave or remain as at this time of uncertainty we need to support all U.K. jobs.

KennDodd Sun 21-Jul-19 19:24:06

Yes, but my money will just be spent in other shops. The same amount of money will be going into the economy.

grumiosmum Sun 21-Jul-19 19:26:05

I have now started boycotting public toilets which have Dyson hand dryers in them.

It can be very awkward, and I'm not sure it's making a difference.

KennDodd Sun 21-Jul-19 19:36:17

Thanks for that list.
I might move my bank account to HSBC and shop at Sainbury's more often. I'll write to them both and let them know why. I'm really going to try my best to avoid Aaron Bank's companies although I suspect he has layer upon layer of companies so it might be difficult to know what he owns.

HateIsNotGood Sun 21-Jul-19 19:52:18

Excellent tactical response to Brexit OP - have you considered any other possibly more important reasons to boycott 'businesses' such as the environment, human rights and those that fund and create warfare?

If not, at least it's a consideration based on your 'feelz', so it must be right....

BogglesGoggles Sun 21-Jul-19 19:54:17

Ok, but do be sure to actually tell them that you are boycotting them. Otherwise it won’t work.

Oranginna Sun 21-Jul-19 19:54:27

Grumiosmum gringrin

Oranginna Sun 21-Jul-19 19:59:03

Why not boycott Dyson dryers and dry your hands on a Leave voter's skirt? Serve them right for having a different opinion to you on the wisdom of staying in the European Union.

bellinisurge Sun 21-Jul-19 20:02:10

I love how the ultras don't accept market forces. This is capitalism. You don't like the company, you go elsewhere. You can do what you damn well like.

Oranginna Sun 21-Jul-19 20:14:33

Only teasing. Of course you can do what you like.

HateIsNotGood Sun 21-Jul-19 20:33:14

Would you also boycott your local independent trader if you discovered they voted Leave in the Ref and would vote the same way if a 2nd Ref were held?

KennDodd Sun 21-Jul-19 20:35:17

have you considered any other possibly more important reasons to boycott 'businesses' such as the environment, human rights and those that fund and create warfare?
I do try. I know it'll be far from perfect and I could always do more but I figure even if I can only do a little bit it's better than doing nothing at all.

NoWordForFluffy Sun 21-Jul-19 20:41:26

That list is a touch dodgy. I'm not sure you can class a business as supporting leave when its former boss supports it!

KennDodd Sun 21-Jul-19 20:47:23

Would you also boycott your local independent trader if you discovered they voted Leave in the Ref and would vote the same way if a 2nd Ref were held?
Well considering that they voted to put my job at risk and that some of my colleagues did lose their jobs because of their vote, why shouldn't I just spend my money at the shop next door?

HateIsNotGood Sun 21-Jul-19 20:59:18

OK Ken, if trying to put a local business out of business makes you feel better than I can only leave you to equate that in your own mind.

Maybe you prefer to shop at multi-national chains anyway so deliberately targeting an independent business with your lack of business would be hardly noticed anyway.

Mistigri Sun 21-Jul-19 21:12:01

Think it's a bit dodgy to list former directors in the "companies supporting leave" column. Companies aren't responsible for what former directors do as private individuals.

I won't spend money with any companies associated with leave. Since I can't afford a new digger that mostly means not buying a new Dyson vacuum cleaner (made in Asia before anyone starts bleating about "British jobs"). Wetherspoons and Next don't get my business anyway.

NoWordForFluffy Sun 21-Jul-19 21:18:21

Dysons are shit anyway. They always lose suction as opposed to never.

Coppersulphate Sun 21-Jul-19 21:24:47

It is interesting, looking at that list, that there are more businesses supporting Leave than remain.
You all say business supports remain. This is clearly lies.

bellinisurge Sun 21-Jul-19 21:57:19

Ah yes, lies. Interesting you should bring that up ..... side of a bus , anyone?

MythicalBiologicalFennel Sun 21-Jul-19 22:11:27

I am boycotting 2 local businesses who campaigned for Brexit actively. There were 3 but one has gone under.

One of the remaining 2 has incredibly belligerent banners at the entrance- think the worst Claig rants.

The other I used to go to frequently but I cannot bring myself to walk trough the doors and see that woman. Brexit will affect (has affected) me and my family disproportionately and she has been complicit in causing it.

It's a free society and private businesses don't have to be politically neutral - their owners are entitled to an opinion. As a consumer I am entitled to use other businesses.

jasjas1973 Mon 22-Jul-19 07:12:24

Yes Copper, that it is an exhaustive list of ALL businesses in the UK....shock
Do you ever think beyond the headlines? maybe don't answer that!

Many companies keep their political views to themselves (leave or remain) so we can only go on their associations , which are pro EU and/or frictionless access to SM.....
72% of independent SME's also want to remain or a close economic relationship with EU.

What business doesn't want is a no-deal.

DGRossetti Mon 22-Jul-19 09:31:15

Whilst it is everyone’s choice where they choose to spend their money by boycotting companies supporting Leave, it is also putting people who work for these companies jobs in jeopardy. For this reason I will not be boycotting anyone whether they support Leave or remain as at this time of uncertainty we need to support all U.K. jobs.

That was Mrs Thatchers weak argument against boycotting South African goods and services in the 70s and 80s ....

grumiosmum Mon 22-Jul-19 09:53:25

How we choose to spend (or save or invest) our money is one of the most important and influential decisions we make every day.

Damn right I'm not going to spend it with businesses whose ethics don't comply with mine - whether it's Brexit, the environment, or extreme politics.

I boycotted South African goods during apartheid, have refused to get a Sky subscription or support other Murdoch businesses, it's not just a Brexit thing...

DGRossetti Mon 22-Jul-19 10:02:41

I'm also not keen on Israeli goods and services ...

bellinisurge Mon 22-Jul-19 10:03:17

I don't give much of a shit if it puts people's jobs in jeopardy. I'm not a charity. I'll spend my hard earned money the way I want and on the products I choose.

UKvsTheWorld Tue 23-Jul-19 02:32:53

If the stories about No deal are correct and the shutters come down then you may have no choice other than to buy UK produced goods.

KennDodd Tue 23-Jul-19 09:23:24

Perfectly happy with UK produced goods, for the things the UK can produce.

twofingerstoEverything Tue 23-Jul-19 10:31:16

If the stories about No deal are correct and the shutters come down then you may have no choice other than to buy UK produced goods.
Given that we're not self-sufficient, that's likely to cause significant problems.

DGRossetti Tue 23-Jul-19 10:39:09

Perfectly happy with UK produced goods, for the things the UK can produce.

I'm vaguely reminded of Allegros and the constellation of crap cars from British Leyland ....

Peregrina Tue 23-Jul-19 10:53:30

I am with bellini on this - I am not a charity, and the Leavers who voted to lose their jobs can just get on with it. I won't kick them when they are down but I can't see why I should make any great sacrifices for them.

Quellium Tue 23-Jul-19 10:57:41

Yes, I would and have boycotted local shops and national chains that support Brexit. If a tradesperson spouts Leave bollocks, they also don't get my money.

hadthesnip2 Tue 23-Jul-19 11:01:46

Do you avoid public transport because one of the tube drivers voted leave.

I think your batshit crazy. We had a vote 3 years ago. What will you do when we have a General Election & your side doesnt win. Go live in a cave because all their new policies& decisions will affect you just as much.

Peregrina Tue 23-Jul-19 11:06:56

Happy to be considered batshit crazy then. I would certain avoid a taxi firm if the owner spouted Leave bollocks. There are plenty who support them (maybe not so many locally) so they can seek their business from them.

We don't know how train drivers voted, but since the tube is in London and that voted Remain, there is a good chance that the driver would have voted the same way.

Quellium Tue 23-Jul-19 11:07:02

As I've said before, I don't give a second thought to what a Leave voter thinks of me, as their critical thinking skills are quite clearly impaired anyway.

UKvsTheWorld Tue 23-Jul-19 12:24:37

but since the tube is in London and that voted Remain, there is a good chance that the driver would have voted the same way

So if the tube driver says he supported Leave you will not take the tube and walk instead?

Go live in a cave because all their new policies& decisions will affect you just as much

Exactly. Labour supporters had to endure a Conservative Government from 1979 to 1997, 18 years. Likewise Conservative supporters had to tolerate Labour from 1997 to 2010, 13 years.

If you employer supports leave are you going to resign?

MythicalBiologicalFennel Tue 23-Jul-19 13:58:01

If the stories about No deal are correct and the shutters come down then you may have no choice other than to buy UK produced goods.

Neither of the businesses I am boycotting supplies only UK produced goods. What they sell is around 2/3rds imported.

You are mixing apples and pears. With the usual underlying assumption that anyone who opposes Brexit is anti-British a traitor

hadthesnip2 Tue 23-Jul-19 14:18:57

@UkvsTheWorld. Love it, especially your last sentence.

Bet the OP wouldn't.

Peregrina Tue 23-Jul-19 14:24:53

So if the tube driver says he supported Leave you will not take the tube and walk instead?

We are not in the habit of talking to tube and train drivers who are insulated from the public in their own cabs, so it's a stupid comment. Since I don't live in London, it's not a big deal for me anyway. As I said, with a local taxi firm I would be perfectly happy to avoid one which supported Brexit.

KennDodd Tue 23-Jul-19 14:43:12

What is this nonsense about tube drivers? How is anybody equating not going on the tube because a driver might have voted Leave with choosing not to go to Wetherspoons because the owner is a vocal Leave supporter and uses his businesses to push this.

UKvsTheWorld Tue 23-Jul-19 14:59:03

Happy to be considered batshit crazy then. I would certain avoid a taxi firm if the owner spouted Leave bollocks

What is the difference between taxi drivers and tube drivers? Both transport people from one place to another?

UKvsTheWorld Tue 23-Jul-19 15:05:08

choosing not to go to Wetherspoons because the owner is a vocal Leave supporter and uses his businesses to push this

Can Wetherspoons or any other business that supports leave refuse to serve people or sell them goods and services if they are remain supporters?

KennDodd Tue 23-Jul-19 15:07:21

What is the difference between taxi drivers and tube drivers? Both transport people from one place to another?

Is this a joke?

UKvsTheWorld Tue 23-Jul-19 15:11:56

You don't like the company, you go elsewhere. You can do what you damn well like

Sounds like what leave supporters say?

UKvsTheWorld Tue 23-Jul-19 15:14:11

I'll spend my hard earned money the way I want and on the products I choose

This also sounds like a leave argument. UK wants to spend its money elsewhere rather than give to the EU

TheElementsSong Tue 23-Jul-19 15:47:39

This also sounds like a leave argument. UK wants to spend its money elsewhere rather than give to the EU

Well, in that case Leavers ought to be enthusiastically applauding this exercise of financial sovereignty by Remainers?

As for the ridiculous scenario about not taking the Tube and having to walk instead, isn't this analogous to "We Brexiters want to experience national economic hardship, and am happy for jobs and businesses to be lost, because Freedom and Shit"...

Which then leads to the further question, as Brexiters are so willing for aforementioned national economic hardship, they should be the last people to be wailing "Whyyyyyyyy won't you think of the hardships of businesses and job losses???".

Mamamia456 Tue 23-Jul-19 15:56:08

Grumiosmum - not sure if you're being serious, but that has made me laugh, the phrase cutting off your nose to spite your face springs to mind.

UKvsTheWorld Tue 23-Jul-19 16:08:09

To Elements

The difference between leave and remain supporters is simple

Leave supporters think UK will be worse off by leaving the EU

Remain supporters think UK will be better off by leaving the UK

Wavyheaded Tue 23-Jul-19 16:18:50

Whilst it is everyone’s choice where they choose to spend their money by boycotting companies supporting Leave, it is also putting people who work for these companies jobs in jeopardy

Brexit is also putting people's jobs in jeopardy.

UKvsTheWorld Tue 23-Jul-19 16:36:41

Brexit is also putting people's jobs in jeopardy

Circular argument. Remain supporters who boycott companies who support leave threaten the jobs of every employee. Including those that voted remain.

Do you really think that 100% of employees of companies who support leave (eg Wetherspoons, Aston Martin) are all leave supporters?

grumiosmum Tue 23-Jul-19 18:03:28

Mamamia456 my first comment was lighthearted.

My second was deadly serious.

TheElementsSong Tue 23-Jul-19 19:40:37

Do you really think that 100% of employees of companies who support leave (eg Wetherspoons, Aston Martin) are all leave supporters?

The logical conclusion of this is that nobody can ever boycott any company or product ever for any reason, e.g. Nestle, or Amazon, or palm oil, or non-fair-trade.

Furthermore, say I wish to purchase a vacuum cleaner. By making a choice to spend my money on Z brand vacuum cleaner for whatever reason, I have in effect boycotted (i.e. not spent my money on) Y brand vacuum cleaner.

So long as I buy my damned vacuum cleaner, somebody is going to earn the money from my purchase. Unless, apparently, every consumer is morally obliged to purchase unlimited quantities of everything, from everywhere? Do you have a cupboard in your house filled with every make of vacuum cleaner on the market? If not, "Won't somebody think of the employees of A-Y brands? Whyyyyyy do you want them to lose their jobs?"

UKvsTheWorld Wed 24-Jul-19 03:53:36

Furthermore, say I wish to purchase a vacuum cleaner. By making a choice to spend my money on Z brand vacuum cleaner for whatever reason, I have in effect boycotted (i.e. not spent my money on) Y brand vacuum cleaner

Simple economic example of substitutes. If there are 26 different brands of any product then they are all substitutes for each other. Most people have limited funds and are unable to buy every brand available. So buying from one brand only is an economic constraint as opposed to an intentional boycott of alternatives.

This principle has been around since the beginning of time. Long before Brexit was ever heard of. So what do posters who say they will boycott Leave supporting companies or people think they will gain?

twofingerstoEverything Wed 24-Jul-19 08:13:21

So what do posters who say they will boycott Leave supporting companies or people think they will gain?
The satisfaction of knowing their money isn't lining the pockets of people who support shafting the country/economy.

Actually, I think this question is a bit rich coming from a Leaver, given that Leavers on these threads are never able to answer the biggest question of all: what they think we will gain by leaving the EU. Maybe UKvs will answer it without resorting to the usual flannel about EU armies, sovereignty, uncontrolled immigration etc. Maybe UKvs can tell us the concrete benefits that will make us all better off - either financially or otherwise - by leaving, because 3 years after the vote, half the country remains unconvined by the 'arguments'.

KennDodd Wed 24-Jul-19 08:50:48

UKvsTheWorld very suitable user name for a Leaver.

I will gain the satisfaction of knowing I'm not adding money to Tim Martin's bank account, or James Dyson's. Dyson who believes in Brexit so much he's since fucked off to Singapore for economic reasons.

TheElementsSong Wed 24-Jul-19 08:52:43

So buying from one brand only is an economic constraint as opposed to an intentional boycott of alternatives.

So are you genuinely saying that consumers should make said brand choices in a vacuum (at random), and that if funds were not an issue, you would in principle endorse the purchase of unlimited products from every brand in order to offer unbiased support to all?

So what do posters who say they will boycott Leave supporting companies or people think they will gain?

So are you, or are you not, against the principle of boycotting products or companies? Non-fair-trade? Palm oil? Tax evaders? Polluters? Apartheid? Non-ethical banking? After all, they would presumably all employ people who may not support the company's actions but simply need a job.

UKvsTheWorld Wed 24-Jul-19 09:09:09

Dyson is a family owned business. Share holders are in the UK. So they pay Tax on the dividends they receive. The move to Malaysia makes Dyson more profitable so dividends are higher. Hence Tax collected by HMRC is greater than before the move.

UKvsTheWorld Wed 24-Jul-19 09:16:30

half the country remains unconvined by the 'arguments

The other half (actually more than half) are convinced by the benefits of leave, but as other posters on other threads have said the decision to vote leave may not have been based on financial considerations.

How people vote is their own choice and does not have to explained or justified to anyone except themselves.

twofingerstoEverything Wed 24-Jul-19 09:22:36

The other half (actually more than half) are convinced by the benefits of leave
Source?

How people vote is their own choice and does not have to explained or justified to anyone except themselves.
Thought so grin grin grin Another Leaver unable to articulate the benefits of Brexit. How surprising.

Zagorka2000 Wed 24-Jul-19 09:29:48

I would not have bet on a Leave result of the referendum, but that is how it worked out.

When the next GE comes around voters can choose to vote for any of the parties who support remain or rejoining the EU as if Johnson does what he says UK will leave EU in October this year.

There have been many threads started by remain supporters to try and extract from leave supporters as to why they voted leave, but they do not serve any purpose. If anything they add to the division that UK is in.

jasjas1973 Wed 24-Jul-19 09:47:06

Ah! once again its all the nasty remainers fault.....

Democracy relies on peaceful opposition or do you suggest that after a GE the losing sides disband for the next 5 years?

Once we leave the EU, there is no option to rejoin (certaily not in the foreseeable future) this is why remainers are fighting Brexit all the way, its up to brexitiers to put forward the plans and ideals that they believe in and convince us of the benefits... so far they have failed to do so.

prettybird Wed 24-Jul-19 09:57:40

UKvsTheWorld just continues the already debunked and facile arguments of Lifecontinues hmm

There are certain posters that I know to ignore as they have nothing constructive or realistic to the discussion.

And yes, I will continue to boycott Brexit supporting businesses - in the same way that I boycotted South African goods and supported the Sports Boycott. My disposable income can go to non-Brexit supporting businesses smile (although having said that, not buying a Dyson, avoiding Spoons and not buying clothes in Next is hardly a hardship wink).

Zagorka2000 Wed 24-Jul-19 10:16:14

its up to brexitiers to put forward the plans and ideals that they believe in and convince us of the benefits... so far they have failed to do so

It is the remain supporters task to convince government as they are the ones who will implement UK departure from the EU, not the leave supporters.

Now that UK has a leave supporting PM leave is more likely to happen. However, leaving without a deal is not the best option I think.

Cobblersandhogwash Wed 24-Jul-19 11:34:04

That's funny. Boris will shift whichever he feels will personally benefit him best. 😂

Leaving the EU will shit on Britain. There are no benefits. None.

prettybird Wed 24-Jul-19 11:43:18

"^It is the remain supporters task to convince government as they are the ones who will implement UK departure from the EU, not the leave supporters.^"

confusedconfusedconfused

twofingerstoEverything Wed 24-Jul-19 11:59:17

There have been many threads started by remain supporters to try and extract from leave supporters as to why they voted leave, but they do not serve any purpose. If anything they add to the division that UK is in.

If remain supporters are being sold up the Swannee, they are entitled to ask why. Leavers not providing persuasive arguments adds to the division that the UK is experiencing.

twofingerstoEverything Wed 24-Jul-19 12:03:36

Now that UK has a leave supporting PM leave is more likely to happen. However, leaving without a deal is not the best option I think.

Well, assuming you're in the UK, you're just going to have to suck that up with the rest of us, aren't you?

ListeningQuietly Wed 24-Jul-19 12:18:05

I choose to spend money with businesses who I believe behave ethically
based on the available evidence.
My ethical factors are
- climate change
- gross tax avoidance
- invasion of other territories
- Brexit

Zagorka2000 Wed 24-Jul-19 13:22:20

Arguments for and against EU membership were presented by the two campaign parties. People listened and voted accordingly.

Nothing prevents people from voting differently in a general election. MPs voted against another referendum if I remember.

BiBabbles Wed 24-Jul-19 13:24:30

Making conscious choices on spending where we want is great, but I'm not sure this will get the momentum or purpose to become a successful boycott. Boycotting isn't, in effect or otherwise, just not spending money. It's intentionally withdrawing financial and/or social support in protest until a goal is reached. Pretty much every successful boycott involved being collectively very clear on the complaints and goals and either creating or promoting alternatives.

I think this is why a lot of more recent 'boycotts' have not really done anything. I mean, the Nestle one has been around for well over a decade now and pretty much nothing has come from it because, like so many others, the complaints tend to remain within the same echo chamber bubble and very little is done to make or encourage alternatives or made it clear what would make those who are boycotting buy again. Changing a CEO or whoever's opinion isn't really as strong focal point as ending apartheid or fighting against racist hiring practices like with the Bristol Bus Boycott.

InOutofmymind Wed 24-Jul-19 15:33:20

Nothing prevents people from voting differently in a general election. MPs voted against another referendum if I remember

What is point are you trying to make?

Zagorka2000 Wed 24-Jul-19 16:35:06

Point is that people can vote for the parties who are advocating remain when the next general election. Some of the threads seem to be saying that referendum result has to be overturned if those who support leave don’t answer remain supporters questions.

jasjas1973 Wed 24-Jul-19 16:39:24

Zagorka

Any GE is almost certain to be after Brexit, it's then too late, i already explained that in an early post.

Of course should BJ fail and call a GE during any extension period, then you are correct.

Oranginna Wed 24-Jul-19 16:57:51

Queen's Dyson fan clearly on show as she shakes Johnson's hand.

Oranginna Wed 24-Jul-19 17:01:39

Or is it a remain fan?

Zagorka2000 Wed 24-Jul-19 17:16:41

Johnson could call a GE before October in order to take advantage of Labours floundering and use Brexit Party as insurance for a coalition to form a majority. 406 constituencies voted leave compared to 242 who voted remain. Not seen any evidence that there is sufficient change of mind to swing the majority of constituencies in favour of remain.

Alternatively Johnson could stick to his promised plan of UK leaves EU in October deal or no deal. Next GE would be 20 months away in June 2021. So leave would be well in progress before a GE took place.

If outcome of a GE in 2021 was that remain supporting parties formed a coalition to make a majority then UK could apply to rejoin the EU. However, I can’t see Labour, LibDems, Greens, Change UK and Plaid Cymru making a 5 party coalition. Even if they did they would lumber themselves with the task of going cap in hand to EU to rejoin.

No certainty that EU would accept UK application. Just think of the amount of money the 27 member states would have spent adjusting to UK absence only for UK to change their minds less than 2 years later. If I was EU I would want all the money wasted paying back by UK. Likewise EU would be fools to allow UK to rejoin on the same terms as before.

Not a lot of time left, but now that no deal is back on the table it might result in some movement in the existing WA. Find a solution to the Irish border and WA would go through.

ListeningQuietly Wed 24-Jul-19 17:35:15

No he cannot.
Not without a 2/3 majority of the house (that pesky FTPA again)
which he does not have.

And the EU have stated that the WA is complete
only the PD can be amended now

prettybird Wed 24-Jul-19 17:52:23

Ummmm, the next scheduled General Election is in June 2022 - nearly 35 months away confused

twofingerstoEverything Wed 24-Jul-19 18:02:59

Some of the threads seem to be saying that referendum result has to be overturned if those who support leave don’t answer remain supporters questions.
That's quite a spin going on there! And why are you banging on about constituencies? Unlike a GE, a referendum result is not counted by constituency but by individual votes. Again, nice 'spin' there.

Zagorka2000 Thu 25-Jul-19 03:42:17

And the EU have stated that the WA is complete

But UK MPs rejected the WA three times.

only the PD can be amended now

PD does not enter the equation without a WA. Johnson has stated that UK will leave EU in October deal or nor deal. If it is no deal than WA is binned and UK must trade under WTO. Not the best option, but if a WA can't be agreed what option is left?

Looking at the new cabinet Johnson has formed even those MPs who voted remain in 2016 agree that the referendum result must be honoured. T May said same on her last day as PM. Many remain MPs who have appeared on QT have also stated that referendum results must be implemented in order.

Will UK suffer in the short term under a no deal? Yes very likely, but democracy has been preserved.

If in the future the voters think that leaving the EU was a bad idea they can vote in future GE for those parties that have another referendum in their manifesto. However, I remember that MPs voted against another referendum? So a GE is the only mechanism to introduce another referendum.

If another referendum took place and the vote was to rejoin then so be it. UK must apply to rejoin EU.

Yes referendums are based on %, but GE are based on seats. This is what favours leave. Whilst the % that voted leave in 2016 was 52%, the number of constituencies was 406 leave compared to 242 remain. That is a 62.5% leave and 37.5% remain. Likewise it is estimated that 60% of labour constituencies voted leave.

Best outcome is UK and EU to find a solution to the Irish Border as that was the sticking point in the WA.

Mistigri Thu 25-Jul-19 06:49:12

Best outcome is UK and EU to find a solution to the Irish Border as that was the sticking point in the WA.

The solution was in the WA.

It's not complicated.

jasjas1973 Thu 25-Jul-19 07:13:53

Will UK suffer in the short term under a no deal? Yes very likely, but democracy has been preserved

Do you know what "the UK will suffer" means? Nissan workers are about to find out.

Had we left shortly after June '16, i'd have agreed but after over 3 years, people should be given another opportunity to express their opinions, either through a GE or another vote.

prettybird Thu 25-Jul-19 08:10:43

Funny how the wee detail of when the next election is scheduled is ignored hmm

For those who don't appear to know hmm, it is in June 2022 which is just 34.5 months away.

Of course, if BJ loses a no-confidence vote, or he can get a 2/3 majority to overturn the FTPA, then it could be sooner. Pesky democracy and the rule of the law wink

TheEmpireNoMore Thu 25-Jul-19 08:18:23

Had we left shortly after June '16, i'd have agreed but after over 3 years, people should be given another opportunity to express their opinions, either through a GE or another vote

Whether or not Article 50 could be triggered without parliamentary approval was challenged by Gina Miller in July 2016. Supreme Court made their decision 24 January 2017 that parliament had to vote, 7 months after the referendum. Article 50 was invoked 29 March 2017, 2 months after the Supreme Court ruling.

The two years negotiation period in Article 50 is intended to avoid an abrupt overnight departure by a member that has chosen to leave.

So the soonest UK could have left the EU was 29 March 2019, almost 3 years after the referendum in June 2016.

Now that Johnson is PM I can't see another referendum being held. However, the next GE is June 2022 at latest. That's when voters will get the chance to choose again.

TheEmpireNoMore Thu 25-Jul-19 08:21:13

The solution was in the WA

MPs thought not and rejected it 3 times. After reading Cox's legal interpretation of the WA I can see why it was rejected.

TheEmpireNoMore Thu 25-Jul-19 08:31:29

Do you know what "the UK will suffer" means? Nissan workers are about to find out

Nissan in Sunderland employs about 7,000 people and is the largest single employer in the region. Yet 61% of Sunderland voted to leave EU?

ListeningQuietly Thu 25-Jul-19 13:29:03

However, the next GE is June 2022 at latest
No
That is the date of the next election under the FTPA

The Prime Minister no longer picks the date of the GE

grumiosmum Thu 25-Jul-19 21:38:14

I like you @ListeningQuietly

grumiosmum Thu 25-Jul-19 21:39:35

If that looks weird I was referring to your post yesterday at 12.18

ListeningQuietly Thu 25-Jul-19 21:43:01

Grumio
Happily taken in the spirit intended.
Clear ethics are useful things grin

IWannaSeeHowItEnds Thu 25-Jul-19 22:01:18

I think nissan workers are under threat because diesel engines are no longer as popular. That's why jobs world wide are going.

There are lots of reasons to boycott companies, but I'm not sure that the owner exercising their democratic right to a different opinion to the one you have, is a particularly good one.
Boycotts don't work unless they are almost universally supported by the public, which this isn't. Of course it's your prerogative to not buy a Dyson or drink in 'spoons, but plenty of other people will so I doubt the owners will notice or care.

Mistigri Thu 25-Jul-19 22:13:45

There are lots of reasons to boycott companies, but I'm not sure that the owner exercising their democratic right to a different opinion to the one you have, is a particularly good one.

If business owners have their right to democratic opinions then so do customers. And my democratic and lawful opinion is that I prefer my cash to benefit businesses whose values I share.

IWannaSeeHowItEnds Thu 25-Jul-19 22:16:16

You do, but if you boycott everyone whose dealings you consider to be a bit iffy, it doesn't leave much.

ListeningQuietly Thu 25-Jul-19 22:22:20

You do, but if you boycott everyone whose dealings you consider to be a bit iffy, it doesn't leave much.
It leaves more than enough for what a non consumerist person needs

Spend less
Spend better

JassyRadlett Thu 25-Jul-19 22:43:18

That is the date of the next election under the FTPA

Unless two thirds of the Commons votes for a motion to have one sooner, or a vote of no confidence is passed and no alternative government is confirmed within a fortnight.

Only 50% of GEs since the FTPA was passed have been on the planned date (though with a tiny sample of, er, two. wink)

The scheduled date of the next election under the FTPA is actually 5 May 2022 (first Thursday in May in the fifth year after the last election.

TheElementsSong Thu 25-Jul-19 23:13:04

will so I doubt the owners will notice or care.

Golly gosh. You mean the wailing and gnashing of teeth about “whyyyyyy don’t you care about job losses and companies collapsing due to your cruel refusal to buy Brand Z!” was incorrect? grin

KennDodd Fri 26-Jul-19 09:00:00

will so I doubt the owners will notice or care
I agree. Still don't want to give them my money though.

In other news. My family's lovely and excellent Romanian dentist is leaving. She's been our family NHS dentist for eight years. In her words 'it's just different here now'. Well done Leavers, I'm sure you'll all be celebrating the fact another immigrant is going, I know my racist Leaver mum will be happy about it.

IWannaSeeHowItEnds Fri 26-Jul-19 09:15:11

So we should all have voted remain, to make your dentist happy?

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