The NI border issue can never be resolved can it?

[Bearbehind]

We would have left by now if is wasn’t for the border issue in NI and I genuinely can’t see a positive outcome.

If, 20 years after the GFA, peace is still so fragile a border is incompressible and any other option basically breaks up the union - how can it ever end well?

[bellinisurge]

I've wittered on about my solution if we must Leave. Border in the sea/NI made a special economic area in which GFA protecting fudge is created.
That's it. That's the only thing I can come up with.
Or WA.
Or Revoke and Remain.

[DtPeabodysLoosePants]

No solution that I can see. The GFA needs protecting but so many don't seem to realise this.

[KennDodd]

Have you ever met a Leaver who gives a shit about the peace in NI though?

[DtPeabodysLoosePants]

I've met a few who had no idea of the implications for the GFA.

[Eaudear]

Have you ever met a Leaver who gives a shit about the peace in NI though?

Nope.

[DullPortraits]

I don't remember remain campaigning in the referendum re the GFA to be fair 💁🏽‍♀️

[Clavinova]

The voters in Northern Ireland voted 44% to Leave the EU in 2016 - a surprisingly large minority considering.

[TooTrueToBeGood]

The border is perfectly fine as it is now so there is no border issue, just a Brexit issue. It scares me and saddens me that there are politicians who will likely throw the people of NI under a bus without a second thought and that so many people will support them doing so.

To add, 20 years is nothing in the grand scheme of the history of the green isle. The fact that you think they've had more than enough time to put their grievances behind them suggests you don't really understand the situation.

[bellinisurge]

Well you weren't paying attention. Or you allowed Faridge to repeatedly try to shut it down because he knew it was the weak point.

[bellinisurge]

@Clavinova , listening to the minority now, are you?

[Clavinova]

listening to the minority now, are you?

They know more about the Northern Ireland problem than most of us - 44% were not 'particularly concerned'.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

It's not just that our fragile peace could shatter, theres the additional problem of the NI population being EU citizens. Including quite a few of the minority here who voted Leave then rushed to get Irish passports.

[bellinisurge]

And 48% across the UK voted to Remain. Make your mind up which minority you listen to.
If you knew anything about NI you would know that for Remain to get a majority there BOTH communities voted for it. It wouldn't happen otherwise.

[Bearbehind]

To add, 20 years is nothing in the grand scheme of the history of the green isle. The fact that you think they've had more than enough time to put their grievances behind them suggests you don't really understand the situation.

I admit I probably don’t - the way I see it is that the border being the reason Brexit might not happen, can’t end well.

And if nothing has changed in 20 years, when will it?

[jasjas1973]

I don't remember remain campaigning in the referendum re the GFA to be fair

True the DM or Express didn't raise it but it was talked about on BBC/CH4 and more serious 'papers, though many brexitiers poo hoo'ed it as Project Fear - a genius piece of electoral manipulation and one which Remain never countered.

For a leave voter in Southampton or Hull, NI may as well be on another planet for as much as it may concern them.

[Peregrina]

I don't remember remain campaigning in the referendum re the GFA to be fair

Well I do, because that is what swung my vote to Remain.

The voters in Northern Ireland voted 44% to Leave the EU in 2016 - a surprisingly large minority considering.

So? A bigger percentage voted Remain in the whole UK but have been told to get lost. Either you believe in winner takes all or you don't.

[bellinisurge]

It was on here loads too. But ... y'know ..."Project Fear" and all that shit.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

It will change in it's own time. I would love to be more specific and optimistic but we've had periods of stability before only for it to go tits up again. We need a very prolonged period of equality (remember that NI Catholics were still fighting for civil rights in the late 1960s) and peace for it to stick.

And as I said most of us will remain EU citizens regardless. How will the rest of the UK deal with that?

[Peregrina]

How will the rest of the UK deal with that?

Presumably Leavers will be delighted, that they are no longer EU citizens - the ones that haven't rushed to claim Irish passports that is.

The Remainers among us, who can't claim another passport will still be fed up (being polite) about Leavers.

[JoxerGoesToStuttgart]

I’m sick of these goady ass threads pointing the finger at us stupid Irish/N.Irish.

The NI/ROI border is not the problem.

The problem is that a Tory government promised something it could never deliver and yet again, thick fucks believed them without doing any of their own research. Now they’ve done the research and realised “oops” we didn’t think of that. But instead of swallowing their pride and saying “we have to scrap this” they’re passing the buck.

[SistemaAddict]

Tbh I was very politically ignorant until all this brexit nonsense and ha e had a steep learning curve. I voted remain based on education/universities/health/research/nhs. I based my vote on what I knew the benefits of the Eu to be which admittedly was only a small proportion of what the positives actually are. I don't remember any campaign in particular apart from that bus. I was at the time embroiled in sorting out my children, my abusive ex that I was trying to divorce and had numerous court hearings around that time. I had little interest in politics bar the effects of austerity. The referendum was the very start of my interest. At the time I only discussed it with one friend, also voting remain.
It was only on coming to mumsnet in the last year that I have realised the huge implications of brexit especially in terms of the GFA. I'm ashamed to say I didn't even know about the GFA. Since then I've done a lot of reading and made it my business to find out as I was ignorant and ashamed that all this had somehow passed me by. I really enjoyed learning about the history of Ireland right from when it was various kingdoms. My knowledge of the Troubles increased massively and caused me great distress and anxiety. Both brothers were British forces and stationed in NI in the late 80s and early 90s. I lived in fear of them being killed. They are much older than me so I was just a child at this time. Every day I was an anxious mess when my parents watched the news experience ting yet another bombing. I can't imagine what it was like for the people living there. I was and still am angry that the importance of the GFA was glossed over or ignored by those in a position of power and knowledge who needed to explain to the public very clearly what brexit would mean for NI. I'm angry that living in England (I am of Irish descent albeit way back) that this is not taught in schools. This is UK history, why are we not teaching it? And if you don't know it then why aren't you making it your business to learn it like I did?
I posted a thread around 9 months ago on the border issue. No one could answer as to a solution bar bellinisurge with her border in the sea idea. I'm not sure how that would work but there's no other solution that anyone has come up with.

Clavinova for once makes a valid point: I was surprised at the voting figures for NI considering the impact of brexit for them. I was also surprised at the low turn out there. I would have thought that with the GFA at stake that more people would have turned out and more would have voted remain. I'd be interested to hear from voters there why they voted leave. Is there any info does anyone know?

[HigaDequasLuoff]

The NI border issue can be resolved by the UK remaining in the EU or transitioning to an alternative treaty arrangement to allow free flow of goods and people across between and south.

There is no other way. Anything which isn't one of the above will not be a resolution and will be a massive mistake.

[DtPeabodysLoosePants]

JoxerGoesToStuttgart nobody has pointed the finger or called anyone from
Ireland stupid.

The question is to whether or not there is a solution to the border because no one wants a hard border but how we get round that no one seems to know.

[Bearbehind]

I’m sick of these goady ass threads pointing the finger at us stupid Irish/N.Irish.

It’s the complete opposite of ‘goady ass’

I’m saying blaming the border will not end well.

Brexit is a fuck up of epic proportions - pinning it being impossible on NI can only make matters worse.

[MirandaGoshawk]

A lot of good sense being talked here. The politicians who said leaving would be easy are either ignorant or stupid. I can't see a practical solution.