This is a Premium feature
To use this feature subscribe to Mumsnet Premium - get first access to new features see fewer ads, and support Mumsnet.Start using Mumsnet Premium
Page 2 | Just how exactly are we going to 'bring the country back together'?(399 Posts)
Both candidates for PM have claimed they can do this. I heard a Tory party member interviewed on the radio saying that the best way to do this was a 'no deal/WTO/crash out because we'll all be in it together and it'll be like the war'.
I don't know how these wounds are going to heal.
My mil, who was born in 1938, was astonished and disbelieving when I talked about the fact plenty of serial killers, black marketeers, looters, thieves etc thrived during the war. She truly believed the propaganda that everyone pulled together in the war. There was no crime.
It was like a giant party for organised crime. Rape and murder were common, too.
I red the autobiography of a Home Office pathologist who worked during (and after) the war. He talked about at least one serial killer case during the blackout. He also said that when he was post morteming women he believed to have been prostitutes, his attitude was one of ‘no great loss to the world’
But sure, sure, it was a golden age. As long as you made sure not to be a woman, poor, any ethnicity other than white, heterosexual, able-bodied and generally healthy, that is.
I don’t know how we heal the wounds this debacle has left us with, but Johnson sure as hell won’t be able to, and Hunt is no better, he’s just got neater hair.
He also said that when he was post morteming women he believed to have been prostitutes, his attitude was one of ‘no great loss to the world’
An attitude which still prevailed when the Yorkshire ripper was busy.
As for the Black Market - Mrs Thatcher said that one Christmas for dinner they had cold meat, potatoes and lettuce. My late DF (no fan of Thatcher) immediately said that her Father must have got the lettuce on the Black Market because in December they had to be grown under glass in the UK. The only people who had the fuel to heat greenhouses in the winter were the American airbases, of which there were a lot in Lincolnshire, and they were not in the business of market gardening for the UK.
Democracy got suspended during the War - General Elections were cancelled and didn't happen until just after VE day. DF didn't get to vote until he was 28 as a result. On the other hand, Parliament didn't seem to be totally paralysed like now and some major legislation like the 1944 Education Act was passed.
But to go back to now and how to heal the wounds - after the war it was time really, my DP's used to go on and on about the war and it took until about 1960 for them to lay it to rest. In about 1960 we seemed to have turned a corner - new things started appearing in shops. ITV started up in the late 50's (in areas outside London) so people started getting televisions.
So the sixties seemed a bit of a golden age - or was it because I was a teenager and old enough to enjoy those times?
People who think we will all pull together are seriously deluded.
I'm the event of No Deal, who is going to thank the Leave side for a serious and brutal change in living standards, that they didn't vote for and have spent 3 yrs warning about?
Are you really going to pull together with those people? I know exactly who has spent the last 3 yrs spouting Leave bollocks, so I'll know who they are.
No, I don't expect the rift to heal before I die. I'm 43. (Hopefully not going for a while!).
All of this has made me realise how much I don't really care to have anything to do with those people anymore anyway. Can't see why I'd give up my ethics and morals to change my mind and be best buds with them after all they've said.
^ So I suppose there is a benefit to Brexit after all! ^
If this farce has shown anything, it's that there is a massive gulf in this country. Leavers and Remainers oppose each other on practically every issue, not just the EU. Our fundamental calues are completely different. Hell, I don't even want to come together with Leavers - I just want them to Leave.
Can you imagine post No Deal some people coming on here (assuming we all still have access to it) bleating about whatever food supply problems and job losses have occurred and how it affects them. Pretty sure my first thought will be "did you support No Deal? If so, I don't give a shit about you".
Not exactly a sign of a country being brought together.
What makes you think leave voters want anything to do with you?
The country is split, but it has been for a very long time.
It's not possible I fear. The prominent politicians who have said that Brexit is priority over the Union, the "review" into the Scottish government and whether Westminster thinks it's working, the complete lack of consideration for NI and Scotland (granted NI is facing a far, far more dangerous and frightening future post Brexit), and the Tory elite literally turning on themselves.
The damage is irreversible, and the Union is on borrowed time. I always wanted independence, but not like this. Not at the cost of England and Wales being absolutely fucked economically, politically and in terms of employment.
If you gave me the choice between independence and stopping Brexit, I'd choose the latter. As it stands, I'm just glad that Scotland has an out. I'm busy telling friends and family from England to move up before it happens.
It's horrible, all of it is horrible.
No deal, whether it is good or bad, affects everyone regardless of how the voted. Still get the impression that remain supporters want Brexit to fail so they can say:
Na Na Na Na Na we told you so.
They all seem to forget that if UK does go down the drain they will be going the same plughole as those that voted leave.
No Deal doesn't affect you @LifeContinues . You don't live in the UK or the EU.
Being “like the war” is simplistic nonsense.
It’s ok for the likes of Nigel Farage et al to say it will be like the war. People like them, rich, were shielded from things like rationing. They still supped champagne and ate steak.
I'm busy telling friends and family from England to move up before it happens
I have a property in Scotland. Wonder what happens if Scotland does achieve independence?
I don't want Brexit to fail. I supported WA. But if your little fantasy off in the Far East has Remain voters in that role, go ahead.
"I have a property in Scotland. " Jacob Rees Mogg type is among us 😂😂😂😂😂😂
No Deal doesn't affect you *@LifeContinues . You don't live in the UK or the EU*
Still have family and assets in the UK so if No Deal results in the UK imploding, as remain supporters seem to be sure of, then it would affect.
The more useful analogy is the civil war I think. Families not speaking. Chaos. Poverty. Then hey ho 20 years later it all gets undone.
I'm going to get a "I voted Remain, don't blame me" tee shirt printed. I so want something like car badges too so I can decide who to let in.
I have a property in Scotland. Wonder what happens if Scotland does achieve independence?
All the current EU member states (including Spain who have changed their position since the Catalan vote) have said they wouldn't block Scotland joining the EU.
So we'd be able to rejoin and have trade agreements etc.
Economically? No idea, but it can't be worse than sticking two fingers up to the rest of the world with Farage and BoJo as poster boys and expecting it to be ok.
I don't think it's going to be possible to bring the country together. We are completely split in two. The people who have the resources and the ability to leave will do. There is no way I'm going to pull together in some bastardised 'blitz spirit' to help people who took my children's opportu ities and security from them in the hope of returning to fairyland
I think saying 'nanananana' is the least of remainers worries. More like we are worried about us all going down the plughole with the people, including friends and family members who caused the mess. Us moa ING about Brexit won't make it fail. I'd be bloody delighted if it all worked out. I have children who only have British passports. They actually have to live here.
"I'm going to get a "I voted Remain, don't blame me" tee shirt printed. I so want something like car badges too so I can decide who to let in."
I suspect it will be hard to get anyone to admit they voted Leave. Trouble is, thanks to social media posts, I know how pretty much most of the people of my acquaintance voted. I never put my views on social media for just this reason although I assume most people who know me in real life can guess how I voted.
I am sure that if countries like Latvia and Lithuania are managing as independent countries, I don't see why Scotland shouldn't. Either boot out the nuclear submarines or charge the English (and I mean English, not English and Welsh) a whopping great fee for renting the space to keep them.
As for people leaving - it will be the educated ones, or those with some get up and go. The ones who would be needed to rebuild the country.
Contrary to @LifeContinues idea, I would love Brexit to work, even the shitty No Deal version of it we might get. I have never wanted to be more wrong in my life. Having No Dealers say nananana to me would be brilliant. Because it would mean the country wouldn't be in the shit and my daughter's future wouldn't be trashed.
But what if I'm the one that's right?
TomTom, I don't care if you want anything to do with me. Why would that upset me? I'm better off.
I've had this said to me before. I find it a bit bizarre that you think I'd care what Leave voters think of me. It makes no sense. I want literally nothing to do with the worst kind of Leaver.
To bring the country back together we need a change in labour leadership and a strong labour party.
Scotland independence will be a disaster! Pulling out of Europe hasn't exactly been easy and the UK has only been in it 40 years. Trying to seperate the UK after 300 years will be a complete nightmare and cost businesses thousands.
Scotland traditionally votes labour, but people are put of by them at the moment, mainly because of Corbyn.