Westminstenders: Long live liberalism

(977 Posts)
RedToothBrush Sun 30-Jun-19 11:54:08

Talk of its demise are premature.

(Sorry up to eyeballs this weekend)

OP’s posts: |
MockerstheFeManist Wed 10-Jul-19 15:02:53

An appropriate response to the Darroch debacle would be to send the obnoxious Woody Johnson packing with a note saying next time send a professional diplomat not a wealthy donor who uses the office of ambassador to further his own and his freinds' business interests.

prettybird Wed 10-Jul-19 13:16:31

Oops - wrong thread blush

Need to get back on to the laptop to PMK on the correct thread as MN App won't let me post photos.

DarlingNikita Wed 10-Jul-19 12:18:47

Shit, Darroch has resigned.

I've written to my MP and the Foreign Sec to say a) he and May were right to defend him and b) his resigning (and her accepting it) is pandering to Donald Trump’s tantrums about dealing with anyone who dares criticise him.

prettybird Wed 10-Jul-19 12:12:03

Cat might be relaxed - wish we could be as relaxed wink

Regal cat positioning - in the greenhouse which is helping me build my stockpile grin

Saw bits of the debate (as I couldn't thole watching it live) on the news reports this morning: watching BJ's body language, he is very definitely trying to model himself on Churchill envy <= not envy. Watch the way he walked off the stage hmm

BigChocFrenzy Tue 09-Jul-19 22:40:20

crosspost !
Yes, Grieve amendment nailed it down (unless reversed later)

BigChocFrenzy Tue 09-Jul-19 22:39:04

BUT could careful selection of dates enable just a short prorogue - I'm not sure
so it's maybe not as water-tight as the Grieve amendment ?

Anyway, the HoC must not allow things to get to the last 2 weeks
- afaik, any rebellion to bring down the govt, must happen before end September, because of the 14 days allowed after a VoNC to get a new govt

MmeBufo Tue 09-Jul-19 22:33:39

I'm sure it was belt and braces for a reason though. D was pretty unambiguous B (I said C, before. That was wrong) is good but vague IMO

BigChoc - half of twitter seem to have missed it inc A Adonis, so yeah. You're in good company wink

Peregrina Tue 09-Jul-19 22:24:05

I said on the new thread that I though requiring the Government to report every two weeks effectively stops them proroguing.

BigChocFrenzy Tue 09-Jul-19 22:15:17

Oops, I should never have relied on the Sun for news !! blush
I won't again

Thanks for the correction, mme

I'd heard the amendment wasn't selected, then believed the Sun & thought that it was back again 🤔

MmeBufo Tue 09-Jul-19 22:13:32



Nikki da Costa
Good summary. Bill goes to Lords with requirement of report on 4 Sept, then on or by 9 October and on a rolling fortnightly basis from then on. Lords could build on it - Letwin and Grieve hope to. Lords Cttee stage next Mon, Report and 3R on Wed. If Lords amend its back to MPs.

Graeme Cowie
Losing track of the Grieve amendments?

There were four elements to his proposals today:
(a) require the Government to report on Executive formation earlier than Government originally planned
(b) require them to report at regular intervals thereafter (1/2)
9:06 PM · Jul 9, 2019 · Twitter for iPhone

Graeme Cowie
Replying to
(c) require a motion for debate on each report to be moved in the Commons
(d) require Parliament to sit if adjourned/prorogued to have the debate on the report

The Government accepted (a), was defeated on (b), defeated Grieve on (c) and (d) wasn’t selected. (2/2)

I think...?

RedToothBrush Tue 09-Jul-19 22:04:49


New thread.

I am back online. Broadband rocks. I can not tell you how much I missed it!

OP’s posts: |
MmeBufo Tue 09-Jul-19 22:03:03



MmeBufo Tue 09-Jul-19 22:01:47

By just 1 vote, Commons decides to forbid Boris Johnson by law from proroguing Parliament to ensure Brexit happens on October 31.

Not really. Grieve amendment d (the perougeing bit) wasn't selected.

I'll find a link.

It's the two weekly reports that passes with one vote. A green light to the lords to do their bit?

BigChocFrenzy Tue 09-Jul-19 21:51:50

Reminder - Clear as mud on the Corbyn / Labour front: 🤦🏻‍♀️

Kevin Schofield@PolhomeEditor

In an email to Labour members, Jeremy Corbyn confirms they now support Remain. < NO, he doesn't >
Jeremy Corbyn's letter is noticeably silent on what Labour would do if it was able to negotiate its own Brexit deal after winning a snap election.

Unclear whether they would campaign for Remain or Leave in those circumstances.
Labour source confirms the party's Brexit position in said election (ie whether it would be in favour of Leave or Remain) has still not been decided.
Theo Bertram@theobertram

Except in the event of a Labour Govt getting a deal, then they would still call a referendum
but might not campaign for remain. (Right?)

Kevin Schofield@PolhomeEditor

Yes, it is rather silent on that.

DGRossetti Tue 09-Jul-19 21:42:53

No-deal Brexit would have far reaching change on island of Ireland, warns Govt
Updated / Tuesday, 9 Jul 2019 17:44

By Mícheál Lehane

Political Correspondent

A no-deal Brexit would result in a far reaching change on the island of Ireland, the Government has warned in its latest contingency action plan.

It says north-south trade would be particularly affected and it could no longer be as frictionless as it is today.

The impact of tariffs, customs and associated checks would involve additional costs and disruption for businesses, the report states.

Without the Withdrawal Agreement and the backstop there are no easy answers but work is under way to minimise these consequences of no-deal but any arrangements would be sub-optimal, the document says.

Engagement between Ireland and the European Commission is continuing in an effort to deliver the shared twin objectives of avoiding a hard border and maintaining the integrity of the Single Market and Customs Union.

A no-deal Brexit will have "profound" economic implications for Ireland on "all levels" the Government has warned in its latest update on preparations for Britain's plans to leave the EU.

It says that it will be impossible for the UK to maintain its current "seamless arrangements" with Europe across justice, security, transport, trade flows and supply chains.

The Goverment's Contingency Action Plan Update acknowledges there is a "high degree of uncertainty" about forecasting the impact on Ireland.

But it adds the impacts in the first year following a no-deal would be "very damaging".

It says small and medium businesses and companies in the regions would suffer "severe negative effects".

It adds the impact of UK import and export exposure for firms could be compounded by currency volatility between the euro and sterling.

It repeats that there would be an expected increase in unemployment of 50-55,000 after the UK leaves.

The Government says that tariffs, checks and controls on UK imports will be disruptive to trade across the Irish Sea.

It also says the UK land bridge (where vehicles travel from Ireland across the UK to get to Europe) would be subject to severe delays. It adds there would be disruption to the all-Ireland economy.

The Government will make commitments to the people of Northern Ireland to ensure that students have access to the Erasmus programme, and Northern Ireland citizens can use the European Health Insurance Cards.

It says a new phase of the Brexit communications will be rolled out which will include a call to action to business operating in exposed sectors to make preparations for a no-deal.

It will also provide additional infrastructure at ports and airports to enhance capacity.

Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney has said that a no-deal Brexit was an "ugly prospect".

Speaking at a press conference at Government Buildings, he said he believed that a hard Brexit will put a great deal of strain on political relationships on the island of Ireland.

He also said that it will also be a "fundamental disruptor" to the all-island economy.

Earlier, the Government described as incorrect media reports that it has accepted the need for checks close to the border with Northern Ireland in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

It followed a report by Bloomberg which said that "Ireland is set to acknowledge publicly for the first time the need to set up checks at or around its border with Northern Ireland in a no-deal Brexit scenario, people familiar with the matter said".

A spokesperson Mr Coveney said the Government's approach to achieving the twin objectives of avoiding a hard border and maintaining the EU Single Market was to be published in its plan. However, they said there are no plans for checks close to the border.

There was likely to be a particular focus in the Cabinet meeting on ensuring that small and medium companies have the required European Union registration and identification number (EORI) to trade with the UK if there is a hard Brexit.

More than 40,000 companies still do not have this number.

Cabinet was due to agree that Revenue will now write to each of them and if that is unsuccessful, Revenue Officers will phone each company during July and August.

Earlier, Mr Coveney said Ireland is as prepared as it can be for a no-deal Brexit.

Speaking before the Cabinet meeting, he said the uncertainty in London now means the Government cannot be sure the UK will not crash out of the EU without a deal.

"That is why we regard the threat of a no-deal Brexit as significant," he said.

Mr Coveney said the Government is trying to provide as much certainty as possible, despite what he said was "uncertainty and confusion" in terms of political messaging coming from London.

Read more:
Latest Brexit headlines
Corbyn calls for second Brexit referendum, will back Remain

The Tánaiste said that since the six-month extension was granted at the end of March, "some people I think had focused so intensively on Brexit that they took their foot off the accelerator and that needs to end now.

"We need to get the country collectively ready for all potential Brexit outcomes."

Mr Coveney was also due to present, what he called a "practical and pragmatic" document, on the readiness of ports in Dublin and Rosslare, and Dublin Airport, saying they are much more comprehensive plans than the emergency management plan put in place for the end of March.

A full update on all contingency plans was also due to be presented to Cabinet.

Mr Coveney said that included in the memos is a plan to boost awareness for people about Brexit over the summer.

He said this is "to get people and businesses back into the frame of mind to think about Brexit, its downsides and its risks" and he urged people to think about how they can respond to this and how the State can help.

Mr Coveney said we need to "face up to the ugly truths" of what a no-deal means, saying it will be a "fundamental disruption to how the all-island economy functions today".

The plans was due to be presented to opposition parties, after it was presented to Cabinet.

Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald said the Government is correct to put a renewed focus on the possibility of a disorderly Brexit and the Government must lead from the front and say that if the UK chooses to crash our of the EU, that decision cannot mean that Ireland takes a step backwards.

Fianna Fáil's Brexit spokesperson Lisa Chambers said there must be a renewed energy and focus at the heart of Government.

She said it is a little incredible to tell citizens that we do not have a plan for checks on food and goods with just over 100 days to go until the 31 October deadline

BigChocFrenzy Tue 09-Jul-19 21:41:21

I'm hoping BJ can't get the Confidence vote, so he never becomes PM ! grin

However, that requires Corbyn to call & not sabotage a VoNC
AND for Tory rebels not to give BJ a chance, but to vote against and be prepared to lose their seats in the August / September GE that would almost certainly result

and of course, for BJ not to win said GE

That's a lot of ifs sad

BigChocFrenzy Tue 09-Jul-19 21:35:56

If her vote had been counted and we hadn't had that byelection called .....
The prorogue vote would have failed ?

MockerstheFeManist Tue 09-Jul-19 21:33:55

George Canning

Remember the name

119 days

Shortest term in office for a UK PM

Johnson losing a confidence vote and then a general election, he could smash that record before the clocks go back.

BigChocFrenzy Tue 09-Jul-19 21:33:32

Oddity re prorogue vote - how often do MPs try to sneak in when they just miss a vote ? hmm
Maybe that Tory should take an alarm clock into the bar with them

Ben Bradshaww**@BenPBradshaw*

And there was a dispute because
*one of the Tory MPs had sneaked through the exit door because she missed the vote and the entry doors had been locked!*

yolofish Tue 09-Jul-19 21:27:58

well in that case peregrina I will laugh and laugh at his hubris, and await his downfall with glee! (whilst at the same time feeling shock, horror and pain for the rest of us 'little people')

Peregrina Tue 09-Jul-19 21:26:32

It's probably too late for Johnson to throw it - the party faithful will have already voted.

Peregrina Tue 09-Jul-19 21:24:03

By just 1 vote, Commons decides to forbid Boris Johnson by law from proroguing Parliament to ensure Brexit happens on October 31.

Now if the Tory in Brecon and Radnor hadn't been forced to stand down for forging expense receipts then the result might have been a tie. Bercow would have had the casting vote, but I imagine in that case he would have cast it for Parliament to have the final say.

I am glad the Tories were forced into a by election - I have seen office juniors sacked for similar offences, who might use youth and naivety as an excuse, but we should expect a better standard from an MP.

prettybird Tue 09-Jul-19 21:13:38

A friend shared this yesterday on FB (although the original is actually from the end of June), but I thought it was appropriate given the Debate tonight. Don't even need to have watched it to know that the setting was on "Boost" grin

Whisky2014 Tue 09-Jul-19 20:55:55

Hamster wheel of doom!

yolofish Tue 09-Jul-19 20:52:18

have you all moved on? I am watching the debate, almost from behind a cushion, Dr. Who stylee. I think Boris is trying to throw it and let JH take the poisoned chalice.

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