Page 2 | Westminstenders: Long live liberalism

(977 Posts)
RedToothBrush Sun 30-Jun-19 11:54:08

Talk of its demise are premature.

(Sorry up to eyeballs this weekend)

OP’s posts: |
BigChocFrenzy Sun 30-Jun-19 14:51:30

"^We have an England-only parliament. It’s Westminster. It’s been there for a long time.^"

Yes, that's about how it functions in practice , but I'm astonished BJ decided to boast about it.

lonelyplanetmum Sun 30-Jun-19 14:53:30

“I’m not convinced there is a case for an England-only parliament,” he said. “We have an England-only parliament. It’s Westminster. It’s been there for a long time. I’m not disposed to create another parliament.”

OMG. Can we have a little MCQ application test for prospective Supreme leaders?

1. Westminster represents which of the following nations:...
A) England only
B) Scotland only
C) England and Wales ... etc etc

F) All of the above

DarlingNikita Sun 30-Jun-19 14:56:43

PMK. Thanks Red.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall Sun 30-Jun-19 15:03:24

Thanks as ever red. Hope you survive IKEA

BestIsWest Sun 30-Jun-19 15:08:09

PMK. Got home from holiday abroad to see several new ‘Cofiwch Dryweryn’ signs have gone up locally. There are definite stirrings of Welsh independence. Reckon Boris will have stoked that nicely.

prettybird Sun 30-Jun-19 15:14:09

lonelyplanetmum - the answer is a) - unless the Conservatives are desperate in which case it is f) England plus a minority in sub-section of NI hmm

Motheroffourdragons Sun 30-Jun-19 15:18:53

Thanks Red, I hope all goes smoothly with the house move.

prettybird Sun 30-Jun-19 15:24:39

Yes - I should also have said good luck with the move. It's a stressful time but you'll get through it.

Hope your broadband gets sorted quickly wink

howabout Sun 30-Jun-19 15:31:03

Sounds increasingly like A at PMQs
NHS - devolved and different
Education - devolved and different
Social Care - devolved and different
Police, transport etc etc etc

However Westminster is the correct place for "English" decision making imho because of the consequent knock on effects, financial and otherwise, on the other smaller Nations. (devolving more powers to English regional assemblies is a different mechanism)

ContinuityError Sun 30-Jun-19 15:37:50

And the EU is just about to sign theVietnam FTA and investment agreement too.

BigChocFrenzy Sun 30-Jun-19 15:38:42

Charles Grant@CERGrant

An important point -
both leadership candidates have *abandoned May’s commitment to no infrastructure on or near Irish border***@p6BiKUnAMw8amNvcUk2N6uQEIIPC**/Qe+DbOQbCDEV5I=&d=twitter,38c1b91

all the signs point to the fact that the incoming Johnson administration
(Mr Singham is widely expected to be a senior Boris adviser)
actually wants to partially resile from Theresa May’s commitment on the border.

This was made in the 2017 Joint Report, and pledged to avoid a hard border in Northern Ireland, “including any physical infrastructure or related checks and controls”.

And given that Jeremy Hunt’s solution to the border also relies on technology, the same applies if he wins the leadership contest.
^*Do not underestimate what a significant shift this is.*^

There was a second Brexiteers’ event in London this week that made the demand even more explicit,
Arlene Foster, the DUP leader appeared on a panel for the Policy Exchange think-tank to argue that
Brexit could not* mean ‘no change’ on the border.*
< the DUP's motivation all along has been to trash the GFA & its concessions made to Republicans/ Nationalists & Ireland >
Lord Bew < former Trimble adviser > argues that the “melting away” of a trade border in Northern Ireland began with the Single European Act of 1992, not the Good Friday Agreement and has happened over time.

As such the ‘invisible’ border, while “enabled by the peace process”, is “not central to its terms”.

This, to put it mildly, is a deeply provocative claim for nationalists
Just like Brexiteers might consider choosing ‘no deal’ over ‘no Brexit’ politically rational,

so Mr Varardkar might consider it politically rational to choose a ‘no deal’ (where he blames UK disdain for Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement)
even it it leads to the return of a border.

The risk of a ‘no deal’ is rising all the time. sad

derxa Sun 30-Jun-19 15:39:49


BigChocFrenzy Sun 30-Jun-19 15:50:01

England over-ruling NI (all voters, not the 29 % DUP) on:
+ Backstop
+ Brexit

England over-ruling Scotland on:
+ Trident, missile transport
+ Brexit

England over-ruling Wales, Scotland & NI:
+ Future US trade deal that will hammer the NHS in favour of US pharma getting much higher prices as in the Usa

+ let US big business sue the UK govt over any future govt policy - health warnings, consumer rights, labelling goods, environmental damage etc - that may increase costs

+ stops UK business & govt do any future trade or business deal that the US doesn't like, e.g with China, Iran

BoreOfWhabylon Sun 30-Jun-19 15:52:18


SistemaAddict Sun 30-Jun-19 16:00:53

PMK. Thanks red.

TheABC Sun 30-Jun-19 16:20:01

Here to watch. The more he opens his mouth, the more I dislike Johnson.

lonelyplanetmum Sun 30-Jun-19 16:34:06

(Mr Singham is widely expected to be a senior Boris adviser)
actually wants to partially resile from Theresa May’s commitment on the border.

Oh FFS- what Singham is consistently discounted by every experienced proper economics specialist out there.

OhYouBadBadKitten Sun 30-Jun-19 16:38:13

Thanks Red! Appreciate it when you are in the middle of a move. That takes dedication.

bellinisurge Sun 30-Jun-19 16:39:57

Red, thank you. And a bit of thank goodness.

OhYouBadBadKitten Sun 30-Jun-19 16:40:41

We have another small oh fuck moment "Jeremy Hunt: I'd back no-deal Brexit with 'heavy heart' "

ThereWillBeAdequateFood Sun 30-Jun-19 16:43:11

pmk best of luck with the move

thethethethethe Sun 30-Jun-19 16:43:39

The Germans we know joke about Brexit on Facebook. With videos of Brexiters saying stupid things. Not helpful.

dreichuplands Sun 30-Jun-19 16:48:30

Thanks Red.
Hope unpacking isn't too bad.

prettybird Sun 30-Jun-19 16:49:57

BJ "^Johnson went on to pay tribute to Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson for the “extraordinary” rebirth of the Conservative Party in Scotland at the last election.^"

That would be the Conservative Party that won 13 out of 59 seats while the SNP won 35 at the 2017 GE (so I suppose after a single solitary MP in the shape of Fluffy for the previous 3 GEs, is progress wink), is projected to go back to a single MP at the next GE whenever that might be shock (and even that one might be at risk if BJ wins the leadership contest wink) and only got 182,000 votes against the SNP's 594,000 votes in the EP elections confused

Talk about delusional grin

DGRossetti Sun 30-Jun-19 17:10:35
Boris Johnson ‘might never enter No 10’ if MPs withdraw support
Michael Savage
4-5 minutes

Constitutional experts say new Tory leader could be blocked from becoming prime minister without a Commons majority
Boris Johnson holds his head in his hands and looks at the floor
Boris Johnson during a Tory leadership hustings in Manchester. Photograph: Peter Byrne/PA

Boris Johnson could be stopped from becoming prime minister even if he is elected as the new Conservative leader, two of Britain’s leading constitutional experts have said.

With Tory MPs threatening to withdraw support for the party under his stewardship, Johnson is warned that he could be prevented from ever entering Downing Street should it become clear he cannot command a majority in the House of Commons.

It is the latest sign of the parliamentary crisis that could face Johnson upon his election. It risks involving the Queen in politics and could pull Theresa May back into the Brexit impasse; as the incumbent prime minister, she will be key in recommending to the palace who should be called to form the next government.

Johnson’s legitimacy would be challenged if just a handful of Tory MPs declare that they could not support his administration, according to professors Robert Hazell and Meg Russell from the constitution unit at UCL, University of London. With May already struggling with a tiny working majority, two Tories – Dominic Grieve and Ken Clarke – have already indicated that they would not be able to support an administration that would leave the EU with no deal, which Johnson is willing to do.

The professors conclude Johnson would “not necessarily” become prime minister should he beat Jeremy Hunt and become Tory leader at the end of July. The cabinet manual, which covers changes in government, does not deal with the unusual circumstances that have been created in parliament by the Brexit dilemma.

“The key test is whether the Conservatives’ new leader is able to command the confidence of the House of Commons,” they write. “Whether the new Conservative party leader can command parliamentary confidence is clearly in some doubt given comments from Conservative MPs that they may not be able to support the new government. The government only has a majority of three, including the DUP, so only a very few rebels is enough for it to lose its majority.

“One possible scenario is that a group of Conservative MPs is so concerned about the winning candidate that they declare their withdrawal of support immediately the result of the leadership contest is known – ie, before the new PM is appointed. This would pose a serious dilemma for the Queen and those advising her, because it would not be clear that the new Conservative leader could command confidence.”

One senior Tory said it was simply a statement of reality that Johnson would struggle to form an administration. However, he predicted that Johnson would be allowed to do so at the end of July, but would be likely to face a no-confidence vote when MPs returned from summer recess. “It’s very probable that he will be able to set up an administration and the crunch in terms of his legitimacy won’t come until September,” he said.

In their analysis, Hazell and Russell conclude that the Queen could make the new Tory leader a “provisional appointment” as prime minister, conditional on him demonstrating he has the confidence of enough MPs. “Alternatively, Theresa May could remain in place and facilitate a process in parliament to demonstrate that the winning candidate – or indeed an alternative candidate – can win a confidence vote, before recommending that person to the Queen.”

It is currently unclear who an alternative candidate could be. Labour would not have the numbers to form a government, so some kind of unity-government figurehead could be an option. Many MPs on all sides now believe that the crisis will end in an autumn general election, either called by Johnson or forced upon him MPs unwilling to leave the EU with no deal..

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