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If article 50 were withdrawn can we stay in the EU on the same terms?

(44 Posts)
dollybird Sat 08-Dec-18 15:39:53

DH is certain that he heard that we couldn't, does anyone have a definitive answer?

1tisILeClerc Sat 08-Dec-18 15:56:32

While I also believe this to be the case it would be better to wait a couple more days until the ECJ has ruled and the choices will become clearer but not necessarily how we achieve them.
To think the EU will simply say 'OK no problem' after the UK has been messing around and costing the EU many Billions over the last 2 1/2 years might be a bit naive.

Quietrebel Sat 08-Dec-18 16:07:25

The answer is YES as long as it happens before B day. I asked this very question during the MN webchat with experts recently (unfortunately can't link to it). Our status is still legally 100% unchanged as we've not left so yes. Terms would remain untouched.

dollybird Sat 08-Dec-18 16:13:39

So a bit like handing in your notice, then changing your mind before your last day?

Quartz2208 Sat 08-Dec-18 16:18:05

There should be a court ruling on this on Monday about whether we can simply do it or whether the other members need to agree but the ruling will come after the court's top legal advisor, the EU advocate general, recommended this week that the UK be given the power to revoke Article 50 without the consent of the EU's other member states.

Peregrina Sat 08-Dec-18 16:18:56

So a bit like handing in your notice, then changing your mind before your last day?

How you are treated after that would depend on what sort of employee you'd been. If you'd been someone highly valued that they were sorry was leaving, no doubt you'd be welcomed back with open arms. If you were something of a trouble maker and never satisfied, then I doubt that you'd get all that many favours offered. Guess which one the UK has been?

Quietrebel Sat 08-Dec-18 16:20:04

I'm not sure that a good comparison. The point is if we are allowed to revoke unilaterally, the terms of our membership will indeed remain the same because as I said, we're still in. We're not employees. We're equal members alongside 27 others.

GirlsBlouse17 Sat 08-Dec-18 16:25:45

I had heard somewhere that if we revoked article 50, we would keep the same terms. It would be as if Brexit was cancelled. However it would have to be on condition that we genuinely wanted to remain and weren't revoking it just to buy us more time then leave later.

SaraGillie Sat 08-Dec-18 16:49:47

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Thegirlinthefireplace Sat 08-Dec-18 17:25:18

I am a staunch remainer and would revoke tomorrow if I had the power, but, I also think the UK should commit to paying costs of this whole fiasco and show some commitment to EU (not sure what exactly would cut the mustard). That would be the hard sell not just to leavers but to lukewarm/reluctant retainers.

eurochick Sat 08-Dec-18 17:27:44

I work in the area of publication international law (including treaties) and the answer is yes.

BeardedMum Sat 08-Dec-18 17:30:04

Please someone just revoke it and save us from this sorry mess

bellinisurge Sat 08-Dec-18 17:30:57

Yes.

Peregrina Sat 08-Dec-18 17:41:12

How would the rest of the EU tell we were acting in good faith? Perhaps an overwhelming vote in Parliament would be sufficient/

GirlsBlouse17 Sat 08-Dec-18 19:06:47

Not sure. Maybe if a second referendum resulted in a Remain majority?

1tisILeClerc Sat 08-Dec-18 19:10:56

The general negativity shown by the UK over the last 2 1/2 years particularly, but being relatively luke warm for the last 40, certainly at political level, has been noted.
Like the 'women's intuition' where a MN contributor suspects the OH is cheating, the EU know what the situation is. They don't need their security services to ferret the information out either.

jasjas1973 Sat 08-Dec-18 19:45:39

1tisILeClerc

All countries have political problems, Greece, Germany, France Italy Spain etc
Of course the EU would welcome us back, the terms exactly stay the same if we revoke before 29th March or via a PV and an extension to art 50.

I don't know why you say we ve not been a good European member? thatcher was key architect of the SM, we are a net contributor, we always help out in defense rolls, we ve been a keen advocate of expansion, the space program, Galileo, security co-op.

Given the huge numbers of EU workers who ve come here to work in the last 10 or so years, its hardly surprising people have used this as a means to force through their anti eu views but thats a failure of Westminster.

JustABetterPlayer Sat 08-Dec-18 19:59:10

I would of imagine so yes, and the EU would likely rejoice as it would save them a lot of money and headaches when they have plenty of other problems to deal with.

GirlsBlouse17 Sat 08-Dec-18 20:05:16

There has definitely been negativity over the past 45 years since we joined. I would say our government's and media have had a lot to do with that. I think part of the problem was our governments decided not to have the UK join at the start in the 1950s where we would have been greatly involved in shaping the EU from the start. Therefore when we finally joined in 1973, the EU had already been shaped without our involvement so we had missed our chance to influence the way it had initially developed, and so we became the reluctant member, because the EU was shaped initially for the needs and visions of its founder members. I think this then set the level of reluctance of our involvement thereafter.

I think if we had another go at things if we revoked article 50, we should embrace our membership as we may gave a better chance of shaping it's future enthusiastically rather than fighting it.

GirlsBlouse17 Sat 08-Dec-18 20:07:57

Sorry, realise how long that sentence was!

Xenia Mon 10-Dec-18 08:21:48

CJEU this morning has confirmed, as we expected after the AG's opinion, that the notice can be withdrawn so I presume that case returns to the Scottish courts who referred it to the CJEU. curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2018-12/cp180191en.pdf

It is a fairly academic point in my view as no one with power proposes to withdraw the notice.

bellinisurge Mon 10-Dec-18 08:25:08

As I said earlier: Yes.

Ifailed Mon 10-Dec-18 08:25:26

it's a very useful card to have during a negotiation if the other party knows you can get up and walk anyway at anytime. I expect May will be sent back to the EU with a shopping list of demands now.

Satsumaeater Mon 10-Dec-18 08:31:53

Ruling has come out: curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2018-12/cp180191en.pdf

Satsumaeater Mon 10-Dec-18 08:32:27

Sorry hadn't realised Xenia had already posted the same link!

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