Talk

Advanced search

A question about the Irish/Northern Ireland border

(64 Posts)
Heatherjayne1972 Fri 07-Dec-18 10:54:40

So was chatting with a friend about all things brexit and he wants to know how come places like Canada North America and Mexico ( and other countries) can exist side by side harmoniously. ( ish) when they are sovereign states Yet there’s tension on the NI/ROI border
I’ve explained the good Friday agreement being an international legally binding thing / history/ the troubles / Ireland being its own sovereign state Etc
But he thinks the border should be ‘handled ‘ by the UN. Like north and South Korea
What would you say to this ?

Auntiepatricia Fri 07-Dec-18 10:59:28

Huh? I’m not sure what you are trying to say/ask? We have no border, that’s been working fine. Putting a border in is difficult when there hasn’t been one for practical and political reasons. I’ve no clue what you are going on about US/Canada for. I’m sure we could have a similar set up but why would we want it when to now we’ve just been able to drive through (practical reason) and it’s been free to run our border (financial reason) and the good Friday agreement has required an open border (political reason).

Auntiepatricia Fri 07-Dec-18 11:00:41

You seem to be implying that Canada/US border situation is better? Better than no border? That’s batshit.

MrsSpenserGregson Fri 07-Dec-18 11:00:48

"Yet there's tension on the NI/ROI border."

Have you googled the Troubles?

kenandbarbie Fri 07-Dec-18 11:12:10

People drive and commute backwards and forwards everyday. They can't be expected to have custom checks on the way to school or work. The Canada USA border has queues, that is just not feasible.

Also for historic reasons (or not so historic) any border is controversial, stoking up feelings about national identity, and would lead to violence.

There are literally hundreds of crossings, some are just paths. Some are through houses and businesses. It would be impossible to have checks at each crossing.

Imagine if there had been a war about whether Canada was part of the USA and half of people in Canada felt they were part of the USA but the other half felt they were part of Greenland. It had taken hundreds of years to achieve relative peace with an agreement that all of the USA and Canada had voted for. That had only happened 20 years ago. So both sides were able to maintain a feeling of their national identity. Hundreds of people had died over the conflict and tensions were still high in some communities and at certain times of the year. Then you're not even near to the same situation.

Heatherjayne1972 Fri 07-Dec-18 11:19:01

This is a friend asking me
I think he thinks the UN should get involved on the Irish border

bellinisurge Fri 07-Dec-18 11:19:26

During the Troubles I said that it should be a UN peace keeping area.
Apparently that was a threat to our sovereignty (sound familiar?).
If your "friend " doesn't understand why the UK border on the island of Ireland is a problem, I suggest your "friend " needs to do some basic research.
If your "friend " voted Leave not knowing any of this your "friend " is an unpatriotic, irresponsible jerk.

purits Fri 07-Dec-18 11:27:39

I'm with your friend. There are international land borders throughout the world. I don't know why this border thinks it doesn't have to obey the same norms as other countries.

WhatchaMaCalllit Fri 07-Dec-18 11:34:01

FFS. Go read a history book that includes Anglo Irish history. Not just a UK school text book that may gloss over it but one that includes all of the information about the past 800 years and then some.

kenandbarbie Fri 07-Dec-18 11:34:12

That's a very clever border to be thinking about things isn't it?

bellinisurge Fri 07-Dec-18 11:34:19

You don't know @purits because you are ignorant .

PositivelyPERF Fri 07-Dec-18 11:36:56

Actually.

Heatherjayne1972 Fri 07-Dec-18 11:45:54

It really is a friend. He’s not said so but I think he voted to leave
I voted remain

I think like a lot of leavers here ( just outside London) he just didn’t consider the impact this would have on NI when casting his vote
And yes I have suggested he educate himself on the history of NI/ROI

Thankyou all. Lots to discuss next time this subject comes up

VictoryOrValhalla Fri 07-Dec-18 11:55:11

I don't know why this border thinks it doesn't have to obey the same norms as other countries.

Because we aren’t other countries. We are ROI and NI and we have this specific set up for very specific life saving reasons. We were interfered with and screwed with by occupying nations to the point that civil war erupted and the only peace we have came with the guarantee we could live freely between ROI and NI without being treated like imposters at either side of the border in our own land.

Ifailed Fri 07-Dec-18 11:55:38

the 'issue' about the NI/Irish border is what happens when it becomes the EU/UK border? At the moment, under the GFA, there is no physical border and goods & people can freely move across it. If the UK leaves the EU, then under EU rules there has to be a border, but that goes against the GFA. Tell that to your ignorant friend.

VictoryOrValhalla Fri 07-Dec-18 11:55:41

Live= move

purits Fri 07-Dec-18 12:01:45

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Herculesfan Fri 07-Dec-18 12:05:22

@purits

Who are you referring to when you say ‘you have enjoyed peace for twenty years?’

purits Fri 07-Dec-18 12:07:11

If you've got something to say then say it.

VictoryOrValhalla Fri 07-Dec-18 12:08:12

You endanger yourselves.

hmm because were all terrorists over here?

PositivelyPERF Fri 07-Dec-18 12:08:59

I dare say purits is one of those leavers that didn’t give a shit about the impact on the people of NI, if the British border in Ireland is affected.

VictoryOrValhalla Fri 07-Dec-18 12:09:15

You have enjoyed peace for twenty years, why throw it away.

Exactly. Why throw it away by erecting a border. Why must the British insist again on risking our peace for their own means?

kenandbarbie Fri 07-Dec-18 12:10:57

Yes I do think the history of ni makes it immune from 'international norms'. There are other controversial borders in the world you know. None has been managed so successfully with relative peace for 20 years. A good solution has been found, it should not be changed. Also, FYI, people are not 'endangering themselves', some people would be endangering everyone else that lives there. There is nothing that can be done about that, a managed solution has been found, which has to be retained for the safety of everyone else.

As a side point I hardly think we should be looking at n / s Korea as an example of good international management of a border. Or Israel / Palestine.

Brocade Fri 07-Dec-18 12:13:12

Ignore purits’s exhibition of fine-tuned goadiness.

I suggest you direct your dimwitted friend here, OP, if the Wiki entries on the partition of Ireland and the Troubles are too hard for him:

cain.ulst.ac.uk

Good resource, hosted by the University of Ulster, for anyone interested.

The Irish Border’s Twitter is also prescient.

purits Fri 07-Dec-18 12:13:54

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, watch threads, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now »

Already registered? Log in with: