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Is there really a majority for ending freedom of movement?

(218 Posts)
Figmentofmyimagination Wed 05-Dec-18 17:12:51

To me, the worst thing about Brexit is the removal of freedom of movement rights from UK workers, especially young workers. We've introduced the highest university fees in the western world, made housing inaccessible to anyone without access to the bank of mum and dad and now we are removing free movement rights.

What is driving this desire to limit the life chances of young people?

pointythings Wed 05-Dec-18 17:17:27

In the case of some Leavers it' the perception that EU migrants get priority for social housing, drive down wages and put pressure on services, and if they go, there would be more and better for British people. The picture is of course far, far more complex than that, but a lot of people don't want to see the nuances and the shades of grey.

DGRossetti Wed 05-Dec-18 17:18:21

What is driving this desire to limit the life chances of young people?

Less foreigners in England, maybe ?

PigletWasPoohsFriend Wed 05-Dec-18 17:19:07

I think there probably is and not just amongst leavers.

PositivelyPERF Wed 05-Dec-18 17:22:36

In the rush to ‘keep foreigners out’, it didn’t occur to some leave voters that it also meant making it more difficult for the ‘real’ 🙄 British to go in and out of the UK.

Seniorschoolmum Wed 05-Dec-18 17:25:11

I think the general idea is that if freedom of movement is blocked, then available housing will go to locals.
As more Europeans go home, house prices will drop because there is less demand and this will help those trying to afford somewhere to live.
The other argument is that without cheap overseas labour, wages will rise, also helping those struggling to afford somewhere to live

DianaT1969 Wed 05-Dec-18 19:08:42

The referendum was shortly after the Paris terrorist attacks (Nov 2015) followed by the Brussels attacks a couple of months before the vote. The desire to tighten security against EU based terrorists was undoubtedly a factor.
Also, Cameron and Merkel will still pretending they were interested in allowing Turkey to join the European Union in the run up to the referendum. Turkey has a population on 79 million and were hosting an estimated 4-5 million displaced people from the Syrian war/Afghans and other migrants from the Middle East.
I doubt it was the French student who serves coffee in your local Pret, your Spanish doctor or German bank analyst that Leavers particularly wanted to limit movement for.

bellinisurge Wed 05-Dec-18 19:23:29

@Seniorschoolmum - so the housing crisis is caused by Europeans coming here and taking up the plentiful social housing hmm. And driving wages down grin.
So the whole thing about there being no social housing strategies for decades and Eu migrants being a net contributor to tax revenue is just a lie thenconfused

DianaT1969 Wed 05-Dec-18 19:32:27

We are a diverse country. Grenfell highlighted how diverse our inner-city housing is.

1tisILeClerc Wed 05-Dec-18 19:33:21

Seniorschoolmum
{I think the general idea is that if freedom of movement is blocked, then available housing will go to locals.}
Not a simple 'cause and effect' especially since there are non EU immigrants arriving.

(As more Europeans go home, house prices will drop because there is less demand and this will help those trying to afford somewhere to live.}
House prices are artificially held high and having fewer Europeans will make no difference.

{The other argument is that without cheap overseas labour, wages will rise, also helping those struggling to afford somewhere to live}
Again not a simple cause and effect, certainly not at professional workers category.

Seniorschoolmum Wed 05-Dec-18 19:48:27

In your opinion, 1tisI, and I think that’s important to say.
None of us has a crystal ball, we don’t KNOW, and there are a lot of different opinions, as everyone is entitled to a view.
It is up to each of us to read as many views as possible, and reach our own conclusions.

BackInTime Wed 05-Dec-18 19:58:06

We’ve had years of governments and the media blaming EU migration for all of the country’s problems, so many believe solving this will magically fix everything. Of course the government had the ability to implement the 3 month rule all
along but never did.

All the discussions are about keeping people out but I am hearing very little about what rights British people will have post Brexit.

bellinisurge Wed 05-Dec-18 19:59:31

@Seniorschoolmum - do you genuinely believe our shortage of affordable housing is due to E Europeans? Yes, we are all entitled to our opinion. And we are all entitled to point out demonstrable flaws in other people's opinions.

Jaffacakebeast Wed 05-Dec-18 20:02:46

Yes. Every single person I know or talk to who voted leave, this is always 1 of the first reasons given for voting leave. I work in the car industry, so highly effected by leaving too

1tisILeClerc Wed 05-Dec-18 20:05:46

There is actually plenty of housing available in the UK, just not necessarily in places where there are jobs.
Failure of successive governments over many years to 'engineer' where people live and work is a significant part of the problem. Not down to the EU or even immigrants.

Biologifemini Wed 05-Dec-18 20:05:53

If we had ID cards (as they have in most of the rest of Europe!) then freedom of movement would be have been fine for most people ) i think) because we would have some idea of numbers and who needs what. I personally think the vote would have been different if we had ID cards. It would have avoided the Windrush scandal too since everyone would have got ID cards on arrival.

1tisILeClerc Wed 05-Dec-18 20:11:05

The fact that Nissan workers in Sunderland were given a 'pep talk' that suggested they should vote remain as their employment could well be affected by the UK leaving still resulted in an overall 'Leave' vote.
It is a bit difficult to be more blunt than 'if you vote leave you will lose your job'. The UK government cannot afford to subsidise new industry in these areas if/when the plants close.

1tisILeClerc Wed 05-Dec-18 20:16:38

Freedom of movement rules are quite strict within Europe and yes movement (more than 3 months stay) involves establishing a right to be there. In Belgium you have to provide ID to get somewhere to stay and to get employment. If you do not have employment or can show you have sufficient funds to support yourself (typically around £10,000) you are removed.

jasjas1973 Wed 05-Dec-18 20:21:28

As more Europeans go home, house prices will drop because there is less demand and this will help those trying to afford somewhere to live

Dunno, house prices dropping mean people don't sell and no one is building really affordable housing.
the UK economy is based on consumer spending, once folk think their houses are worth less, they also spend less.

Now, down here, they cannot sell the houses they are building and outside HA's are buying them up, they are also having to push shared ownership schemes, because the bottom line is that 200k isn't affordable and to make them affordable (based on avg incomes) they need to be sub 100k and that isn't going to happen.

We need social housing and cheap rents, as done in the 50s.

badlydrawnperson Wed 05-Dec-18 23:39:35

*I personally think the vote would have been different if we had ID cards. It would have avoided the Windrush scandal too since everyone would have got ID cards on arrival.

What a load of total shite. The windrush was caused by government department fuckups. They would've fucked up ID cards just as badly.
ID cards aren't the answer, they are an expensive extra burden. If there's a lack of enforcement now how do you think ID cards would help. Also who is going to make all the travellers and people in nursing homes get and keep up to date a flaming stupid ID card? ID cards are for people who don't spend more than a nanosecond considering the issues.

badlydrawnperson Wed 05-Dec-18 23:41:52

@1tisILeClerc How are the rules enforced in Belgium? Because there's about zero enforcement here as far as I can tell.

Shinesweetfreedom Wed 05-Dec-18 23:47:36

How many are seriously from this country going to live abroad compared to the numbers that have come to this country.

Shinesweetfreedom Wed 05-Dec-18 23:50:46

You say Belgium you have to be self supporting.
Well that is not the case here or people from the EU would not get housing and benefits.

GD12 Wed 05-Dec-18 23:54:19

Shine, EU migrants to the UK are net contributers to the exchequer www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-workers-uk-tax-treasury-brexit-migrants-british-citizens-a8542506.html%3famp

As an aside, my sister has lived in Spain for 25 years and teaches English. She married a Spanish guy.and has a 20 year old daughter brought up in Spain. She now doesn't know if she's going to be able to stay in the country or what's going to happen.

Childrenofthesun Wed 05-Dec-18 23:56:09

I think if the referendum hadn't coincided with the refugee crisis, there would have been a different outcome. Some sections of the media were frothing and creating total hysteria. Otherwise, excepting a few places like Lincolnshire where they had seen very rapid changes in migration patterns over a short time, I think most people didn't notice much in their everyday lives.

The refugee crisis brought out the latent xenophobia in some people.

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