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Would a GE cause any party to have a Remain Policy

(28 Posts)
SonEtLumiere Sun 02-Dec-18 07:15:06

Will any party bite the bullet and say ‘Every Scenario Leaves us worse off. Our policy is to withdraw Article 50”

Surely a consolidated Remain vote would pull together? Or would personal ambition scupper it?

BigChocFrenzy Sun 02-Dec-18 07:58:44

SNPhave always wanted Remain, as have the LDems,
so I'd expect them both to push for this if May's Withdrawal Deal is voted down

re Tory & Labour:
Personal and party considerations, also a stubborn refusal to admit mistakes, nearly always trump the good of the country.
Hence the Tory government's 2 year clusterfuck over Brexit
and Labour's pathetic performance as the Official Opposition.

Tory voters are overwhelmingly Leave and Labour overwhelmingly Remain,
if a major party were to vote Remain, it would presumably be Labour, plus maybe some Tory Remain rebels, plus SNP+LDems.

However, Corbyn is a longterm Brexiter
and Labour have said they would only push for a PV (peoples Vote) if they can't get a General Election
- the EU have said they'd agree to extending A50 for a 2nd referendum or a GE.

The HoC might also vote directly to revoke A50, i.e. Remain, if time has nearly run out and they judge that the markets / Sterling / economy / their nerves can't take the minimum 24 weeks extra for the PV

A GE is only likely if the House of Commons cannot agree on any of the options.
May could fail to get her WA through, but still have the votes -and the obstinacy - to block off a PV or a request to the EU for Remain or Norway++

So, the Tories may have the votes - their MPs + DUP - to hold out until 29 March,
to the automatic A50 default Brexit of No Deal - falling off the cliff without any transtion period or deals.

bellinisurge Sun 02-Dec-18 08:09:04

In short, no major uk party would do this. Corbyn just wants a GE because he sees it as an opportunity to rise from chaos victorious. A GE would be like toddlers arguing over who is the best spaceman.

SonEtLumiere Sun 02-Dec-18 08:09:23

Lib Dems said Second Referendum (which I always thought was Wet of them, should have said rescind A50).

What about any of the smaller parties. Are there any with members that are trying to get official policy as Rescind and Remain

Maryjoyce Sun 02-Dec-18 08:14:56

Why should any change the public vote ? We voted to leave simple as

bellinisurge Sun 02-Dec-18 08:18:50

That's just it, @Maryjoyce . In grown up world it isn't "simple as".

SonEtLumiere Sun 02-Dec-18 09:30:10

But more and more people are saying they didn’t vote to be poorer for the next fifty years/ forever.

I think in light of the negotiations/deal that a rescind A50 policy is valid. Especially if the vote on the 11th is rejected.
(As an aside I also think that “No Deal” is also valid as policy too, even though it is not a policy I would vote for)

ragged Sun 02-Dec-18 10:12:56

LDems do NOT have a "Remain" policy. LDems had a "Another Referendum" policy in 2017. IIRC Greens said exact same.

Does SNP have a "Revoke A50" policy or another "Another Referendum" policy?

If living in England, There is no party to vote for if you know Revoke A50 is the only policy you want.

prettybird Sun 02-Dec-18 10:50:11

The SNP's policy is Remain - so yes, it is revoke A50.

They are very wary of a PV because of the implications it could have for the result of a 2nd IndyRef.

Sturgeon doesn't want to hold Indyref2 until she is confident of winning 60:40.

Talkinpeece Sun 02-Dec-18 15:18:29

Basically half the country is unrepresented in Parliament

time for electoral reform

My MP is anti Brexit but Corbyn's Momentum thugs make him stay quiet

Peregrina Sun 02-Dec-18 15:34:17

Electoral reform won't happen until Labour and the Tories find that they can't win majorities any more. It might be on its way but I think it will need a couple more hung Parliaments - so ten years at the earliest. The Tories have only won two modest majorities since 1992 i.e. Major's Govt, managed a majority of 20 I think, and Cameron managed 12 in 2015.

Labour did OK in 2005. What PM now wouldn't love a majority of 66? I can't see it happening again with the current crop of Labour politicians.

Talkinpeece Sun 02-Dec-18 15:36:18

I know. It makes me sad.
Both the UK and the USA have stuck with FPTP and it is tearing the countries down the middle

BubblesBuddy Sun 02-Dec-18 22:24:15

Well we were asked about another system but people want FPTP because they can understand it.

Peregrina Sun 02-Dec-18 22:53:01

I think people only 'wanted' FPTP because that's what they understood. We weren't given much information about alternatives, and the suggestion wasn't for a proper proportional system. Who knows what would have happened, if there had been a decent campaign?

prettybird Mon 03-Dec-18 14:18:21

I can't even remember what I voted in the AV referendum. I think I voted for AV, as a very minor improvement on FPTP - but it was a shitty choice.

I'd have much rather the hybrid d'Hondt system we have here in Scotland for Holyrood. It's a system we already use for the EU Parliamentary elections (while we still could wink) but it retains local accountability with the constituency M(S)Ps as well.

But Labour and the Conservatives would hate it as it is designed to ensure no one party gains control and encourages coalitions hmm. It was thought by some to be designed to ensure that the SNP would never win power - only they "broke" the system in 2011 to gain an overall majority shock. Normal service was resumed in 2016, when the d'Hondt system ensured the correct proportionality smile (although it also still ensure a majority of Indy supporting MSPs wink)

MyNameIsArthur Tue 04-Dec-18 15:35:01

Im sure the Lib Dems wanted a second referendum . I will vote for them next time. However, as others have said, with FPTP, we are not properly represented. Unfortunately, we have had a referendum for our voting system so unlikely to have one again. I think the argument was that PR results in weak coalition government's but we had a coalition govt and that seemed to work okay. I read a book recently that said David Cameron was expecting he would have to form another coalition govt in 2015 and thought he would be able to put the option of a EU referendum on the backboiler as a deal with the lib dems. However he surprisingly won a majority and so had to see through his manifesto promise of a referendum. Anyway, I don't want conservatives or labour in power if there is a GE but will make do with a coalition with lib dems. It is probably about time the conservatives split as there are too many divisions

badlydrawnperson Wed 05-Dec-18 23:47:33

Even if one of the two main parties (and I suspect it wouldn't be the Tories) did campaign on revoking article 50, as others have observed, even with majority support they might not win due to out outdated system.

Maryjoyce Thu 06-Dec-18 02:35:24

Fact is it is that simple we should have just left and by now we’d have already had agreements as Europe imports tons if rubbish to us but our exports to them are tiny so it’s in there Intrests to keep selling us there rubbish food and bad cars so sure they would have agreed all by now. Instead we’re argu over nothing.
Should leave without any deal for sure as puts us In Far better position than a rubbish deal

Kezzie200 Thu 06-Dec-18 07:22:03

How does a no deal put us in a better position than the TM deal?

And none of this they need us more than we need them. We are not that large a percentage of their exports. They are likely to be accepting of waging that against splitting the EU further. Its us that will suffer greatest. And for what?

Kezzie200 Thu 06-Dec-18 07:24:12

There doesnt appear to be a parliamentary majority for anything apart from remain, and that wasnt the voting public majority in 2016.

BurpAndRustle Thu 06-Dec-18 07:31:32

Not quite yet. Nearly there. But not quite.

SonEtLumiere Thu 06-Dec-18 12:20:42

MaryJoyce I think it is pretty obvious that isn’t true. It has taken this long to get a temporary deal. Mostly through failure to prepare.

In any case, what sort of a deal do you see as optimal for the UK? I am in the unfortunate position that the Leavers I know personally want a deal (eg Passporting for banks) whilst having a No-Deal Brexit. When I point this out it is not appreciated.

Maryjoyce Wed 12-Dec-18 14:31:17

Very happy to leave without I’d rather deal with decent people and buy decent food that tastes of something Instead of rubbish grown in greenhouses. Along with numerous other reasons including saving us billions and billions that can be invested in our country instead of giving it away to a load of parasites just to name a couple

Maryjoyce Wed 12-Dec-18 14:34:07

You forget that it’s in Europe’s interest more than ours to sell there rubbish to us since they export a huge percentage compared to our exports to them

Maryjoyce Wed 12-Dec-18 14:35:30

And yes I believe it would have been true as if we’d nit wasted so long talking and left they’d already have some agreements sorted since they want to sell us there rubbish

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