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if referendums are bad why are remaniacs not saying we should leave after all we went in based on a 1975 flawed referendum said it was just a common market

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confussssed Sat 17-Nov-18 10:48:34

see subject only logical answers only.

twofingerstoEverything Sun 18-Nov-18 08:07:39

Your thread title is pure goady fuckery.

surferjet Sun 18-Nov-18 08:16:45

Op: are you new to MN?
You must know by now that anything to do with joining the EU, being in the EU, staying chained to the EU, is good & proper and totally right.,
Anything else is completely wrong, based on lies & glorified opinion polls.

There is no discussion. Brexit is a religion now.

1tisILeClerc Sun 18-Nov-18 08:55:24

When you get married, is there a 'requirement' written into the marriage vows that say you will have 2 children, a boy and a girl?
NO, relationships change for many reasons.

Surfer is of course proving Twofinger's assertion about being 'goady'.
The UK is not 'chained' to the EU.

surferjet Sun 18-Nov-18 09:09:59

Exactly - what we signed up for in the 70’s is not what we have now.
Everything changes. We need to reassess and decide if the relationship with have now ( which is completely different from the relationship we had 40 years ago ) is what we want.

We decided it wasn’t.

Moussemoose Sun 18-Nov-18 09:12:38

And all the changes were negotiated by our governments. Debated and voted on in Parliament. No surprises all democratic.

merrymouse Sun 18-Nov-18 09:14:10

if referendums are bad why are remaniacs not saying we should leave after all we went in based on a 1975 flawed referendum said it was just a common market

Because:

1). We cannot turn back the clock to 1975

2). The decision to enter the EU would not have been flawed because there was a referendum.

It would only have been flawed if most MPs thought entering the EU was a bad idea and had no clue how to join the EU or what it would mean and the only reason the UK had entered the EU was because of a referendum.

Infact the U.K. joined the EU because of a vote by MPs not a referendum.

The referendum in 1975 was then about leaving or staying according to agreed terms.

Jason118 Sun 18-Nov-18 09:21:16

Once more surfer displays feelings not reasons. Feeling 'chained' to the EU is a feeling, not a fact. As we are finding out now, there is a mechanism for any country to leave, so we are currently 'joined' with the EU and are trying to 'unjoin' (and yes, I know that's probably not a word). Simple facts to understand really smilesmile

surferjet Sun 18-Nov-18 09:21:57

And all the changes were negotiated by our governments

Exactly. Negotiated by government.
The people were not involved or consulted.

We had a say in the 70’s - it was time to let the people have their say again.

Problem with letting governments decide things for us ; EU related : is they have their own agendas.
A politician this morning has called the EU ‘bullies’
Do you agree with him?
No, of course you don’t.
But he, & people like him, are in charge.

Jason118 Sun 18-Nov-18 09:23:29

Super, I didn't realise that our governments were imposed on us. I was under the ridiculous impression that we, the people, democratically elected them. Ah well, every day's a school daysmile

surferjet Sun 18-Nov-18 09:24:57

Jason118

Calling the EU ‘bullies’ is also a feeling.
But senior politicians say it regularly.

Are people only allowed to talk about facts?

Jason118 Sun 18-Nov-18 09:28:12

When the facts show that things will be shit, they trump any feelings of non-shitness I might have.

Jason118 Sun 18-Nov-18 09:29:29

People call others bullies when they don't get what they want - in the context of EU intransigence, why shouldn't they protect the club that we've decided to leave, wouldn't you also?

surferjet Sun 18-Nov-18 09:31:26

I wouldn’t bully someone just because they wanted to leave no.
That’s pretty disgusting behaviour isn’t it.

Moussemoose Sun 18-Nov-18 09:32:47

The people were not involved or consulted.

Ahhhhhhhgggghhhh

WE LIVE IN A REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY! Yes they were in many, many general elections.

How many times do you have to read this before you understand. The government of the country you want to keep pure and untainted by the EU is a representative democracy. We shouldn't have referenda.

When am I allowed to call leavers stupid. Is there a point when something has been explained innumerable times when you can say it? You complain when posters say you don't understand and then you make comments which clear indicate you don't understand.

Leavers love and admire the U.K. constitution they want to keep it and then they argue against it.

It quite simply beggars belief.

surferjet Sun 18-Nov-18 09:36:07

Moussemoose

I don’t remember any manifesto I voted for detailing the direction that particular party was taking regarding the EU.
No party has fought an election on its EU agenda.
hmm

Jason118 Sun 18-Nov-18 09:36:15

But again you fail to grasp the point - the politician 'feels' he/she is being bullied when in fact the EU are just doing what's right by their members and their rules which will continue if/when we leave. It's feelings not reasons, as I said. That's why we are in this mess now - any rational person looking at the real facts before the referendum (or even the balance of probabilities of what was likely to happen) would not have voted to leave. It's feelings that drove the leave vote, it's one of the reasons debates on here are so one sided.

surferjet Sun 18-Nov-18 09:38:00

Apart from UKIP of course - which is why they were taking millions of votes off labour & the tories.

FACT for you.

Jason118 Sun 18-Nov-18 09:39:36

UKIP is a good point - if Cameron hadn't pandered to them, they would still be a pointless fringe party with no workable economic plans. Shame he was such a self serving arse.

merrymouse Sun 18-Nov-18 09:53:05

I don’t remember any manifesto I voted for detailing the direction that particular party was taking regarding the EU.

I'm very certain they all did - it's just that no major party had a policy of leaving the EU, because when it came down to it none of them had a majority of MPs who believed that there was a way that the UK could be better off outside the EU.

UKIP are quite good at promising unicorns to get votes, but have never had to govern - not even a parish council.

I can see that it was perfectly rational to believe that Cameron was giving people a choice - and that 'Project Fear' could be ignored because nobody had a clue how to execute one of the outcomes - but it turns out Cameron would.

merrymouse Sun 18-Nov-18 09:54:28

because nobody would have a referendum if they didn't have a clue how to execute one of the outcomes

1tisILeClerc Sun 18-Nov-18 10:02:03

{I wouldn’t bully someone just because they wanted to leave no. }
The EU is NOT bullying. The UK wants to leave, fine. All the EU are saying is that when the UK leaves these various matters need finalising, such as the money to be paid for projects that are ongoing. This being around £20 Billion if the UK leaves in March 2019, or £39 Billion if it has the transition period.
If you decide to leave the gym, where you were a member, it is NOT bullying by the management when they insist you cannot take the dumbells and rollmats home with you.
I would have liked to see halving of gas and electricity prices on government manifestos so I could vote for that. It might even be quite popular generally. It never happens though.

Moussemoose Sun 18-Nov-18 10:02:13

No party has fought an election on its EU agenda

In the U.K. system of politics - you know the one you treasure so much - elections aren't fought on single issues. However, at every election each party lays out its views on the EU. Every. Election. All of them.

We do in fact have one single issue party UKIP. So yes we do have a party that has fought elections on this single issue.

lalalonglegs Sun 18-Nov-18 11:17:23

Your OP is incorrect: the UK didn't go into the EEC based on a referendum, we joined in January 1973 after our Parliament decided that that was the best thing for the country. Two and a half years later, the decision to stay was ratified by a binding referendum which won 67% of the vote.

Peregrina Sun 18-Nov-18 14:49:57

I don’t remember any manifesto I voted for detailing the direction that particular party was taking regarding the EU.

Then cast your mind back to the 2015 Tory Manifesto where they devoted a whole paragraph to their commitment to the Single Market. Or are you going to say that this doesn't concern the EU?

bellinisurge Sun 18-Nov-18 16:16:30

Do you not remember or did you just not pay attention?

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