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Charting our nemesis

(287 Posts)
lonelyplanetmum Fri 19-Oct-18 07:12:07

Which chart encapsulates this nightmare for you?

This is the pie chart that I showed my FIL when he was repeating Farage’s drivel. The government’s own 2016 figures showed how statistically insignificant our EU budget percentage contribution always was.

lonelyplanetmum Sat 12-Oct-19 19:08:40

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lonelyplanetmum Thu 20-Jun-19 08:26:33

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lonelyplanetmum Tue 28-May-19 07:34:33

Contrary to what you see in the media on the number crunching if a people's vote were run with the same choices as the 2016 referendum the result would have been:

•Remain: 55.3%
•Leave: 44.7%

That's a 2.3 million lead to Remain. The Remain bloc won 9.3 million votes while the Leave was 7 million.

https://www.businessinsider.com/european-election-results-uk-regrets-brexit-votes-remain-2019-5

lonelyplanetmum Sun 26-May-19 11:54:33

Thank you Sleight interesting- well we will know later tonight.

I see Gibraltar and the Isles of Scilly are out on extreme limbs there! I feel there is some profound verity that is revealed by those small island communities that is equally applicable to us in a diluted form. However I'm not quite sure what!

SleightOfMind Sun 26-May-19 00:56:48

This is interesting.
Increase in turnout between the 2014 vote and 2019, plotted against how councils voted in 2016.
Remainy areas showing the biggest increase in GOTV.

lonelyplanetmum Sun 28-Apr-19 05:12:03

Thank you Talk

TalkinPaece Sat 27-Apr-19 16:17:35

Not a chart,
just a whole page of charts, some about Brexit some not
www.economist.com/graphic-detail/
and the articles on here often contain good charts
www.economist.com/britain/
I get the print edition

lonelyplanetmum Mon 22-Apr-19 17:02:18

Thank you Mistigri.

Mistigri Mon 22-Apr-19 10:47:14

Latest EP election polling. Not all polls have ChUK or Brex yet.

Re the previous post: health warning, possible PBP.

ToLeaveOrToRemain Mon 22-Apr-19 09:03:12

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

1tisILeClerc Sat 20-Apr-19 07:56:13

lonelyplanetmum
I find this chart a bit depressing as it seems to indicate that there is no strong support for being IN the EU.
With 3 years of mass publicity, but allowing for a fair degree of boredom, to me it suggests that the 'Remain' followers have a LOT of work to do.
With the likes of Farage and the UKIP parties, yes they say they want to leave, but seem to have 'leaving' as their end point, and not saying that it is just the starting point for a 'Greater UK' with any form of plan attached for how it might be brought about.
If you decide to go for a day out to the seaside, you plan with buckets, spades, suncream and sandwiches, but I don't see any forward planning apart from the goal of 'leaving'.

lonelyplanetmum Sat 20-Apr-19 07:27:15

From 26.03.19

lonelyplanetmum Fri 19-Apr-19 15:05:27

Thank you for that chart pretty. It's an absolute classic that has been missed I think.

Mistigri your point about both the Solidarity between both the EU and US with Ireland is so pertinent. It's one of those 'can't see the woods for the trees' points that is often missed in our press I think. If you read Irish news you get a very different feeling. The ref has pitted us against Ireland and ( understandably) the world is more lined up on their side.

We have isolated ourselves from everyone but, of course, that's what we wanted.

Mistigri Fri 19-Apr-19 09:32:35

So from that do we conclude that bad judgment by two remain supporting Prime Ministers is the reason for the mess UK is now in?

Their judgement was very poor, but to reluctantly give her credit, May has negotiated a Brexit deal (the only Brexit deal on offer) which provides for the only solution to the Irish border problem that takes GB out of both the customs union and single market.

You can Brexit on May's terms, you can Brexit to an as-yet-to-be-negotiated Norway+ type position, or you can not Brexit at all.

Those are the choices. If push comes to shove, the EU and the US will both line up on the side of Ireland.

prettybird Fri 19-Apr-19 09:31:06

Not sure if this chart has already been posted.

LeaveOrRemain Fri 19-Apr-19 09:27:59

most of whom are outside the U.K. and have their own agendas - will simply not play ball with you

Yes they will, but terms may not be a great as UK thought.

The Irish Border is a relevant point and I am surprised it was not researched by Cameron before he agreed to have a referendum in he won in 2015. Obviously he was certain that remain would win easily as he is a remain supporter.

Also would have though T May would have researched it too before triggering Article 50, but looks like she did not. She too is a remainer?

So from that do we conclude that bad judgment by two remain supporting Prime Ministers is the reason for the mess UK is now in?

1tisILeClerc Fri 19-Apr-19 09:27:56

{ If you don't want Brexit at all, then support remain or no deal.}

With a 'no deal' the WA still has to be signed BEFORE the EU will enter any significant negotiations.
Thus the the 3 choices are: Revoke, WA, or eventually WA but kicking and screaming.

Mistigri Fri 19-Apr-19 09:20:48

Basically, if you want Brexit: support May's deal (I don't support it but if Brexit is important to you, then you should). If you don't want Brexit at all, then support remain or no deal.

Mistigri Fri 19-Apr-19 09:19:13

Not at all. I can understand, I think, some of the (non-racist) arguments for Brexit put forward by people like Oliver Norgrove and Roland Smith and Ben Kelly among others (all have recanted, by the way).

But there can be some good arguments in favour of something but no political or practical path to achieving it. In this case, the issue is not U.K. policy, but the foreign policy, trade and security imperatives of other states. No deal doesn't work because the people you will need to cooperate in order to make it work - most of whom are outside the U.K. and have their own agendas - will simply not play ball with you.

The US for a start; I shared this elsewhere but it's worth posting here too. It's a twitter thread by Peter Foster of the Daily Telegraph, not a paper noted for its pro-remain stance, about the geopolitical context for the Irish Border and what that means for future US relations in a no-deal context.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1118456412919693312.html

LeaveOrRemain Fri 19-Apr-19 09:10:03

impairment

If someone votes differently to others how does that represent impairment? I don't remember the ballot paper saying that if you choose leave it is acknowledgement that you are impaired

People are entitled to vote how they choose. If at a later date the voters think they have made a bad decision they can vote again.

Mistigri Fri 19-Apr-19 09:01:57

Former BOE Governor Mervyn King thinks no deal is possible. Guess that makes him insane?

It certainly gives cause to wonder if some sort of cognitive impairment is setting in.

LeaveOrRemain Fri 19-Apr-19 08:56:42

concrete outcomes

They don't exist. Nobody on the planet can predict the future with certainty. If they could they would be the richest people on the planet as they would know exactly when and when not to invest.

that sane people know is not capable of being implemented

Former BOE Governor Mervyn King thinks no deal is possible. Guess that makes him insane?

People are entitled to vote how they choose. If at a later date the voters think they have made a bad decision they can vote again.

Mistigri Fri 19-Apr-19 08:46:16

People have to be given a choice between concrete outcomes. I don't think a tense situation is helped by offering them a choice (no deal) that sane people know is not capable of being implemented.

LeaveOrRemain Fri 19-Apr-19 08:42:37

Stock markets are not necessarily a great proxy for economic growth, although the FTSE 250 is better than the FTSE 100

True. Did the World go bankrupt after the Stock Market crash in October 1987? UK GDP per capita was not affected at all and increased between 1986 and 1990.

LeaveOrRemain Fri 19-Apr-19 08:36:15

But as our esteemed leader says the people voted for that pain

Because they are entitled to vote how they choose. If at a later date the voters think they have made a bad decision they can vote to rejoin the EU.

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