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Charting our nemesis

(287 Posts)
lonelyplanetmum Fri 19-Oct-18 07:12:07

Which chart encapsulates this nightmare for you?

This is the pie chart that I showed my FIL when he was repeating Farage’s drivel. The government’s own 2016 figures showed how statistically insignificant our EU budget percentage contribution always was.

Clavinova Thu 18-Apr-19 11:06:47

Mistigri

I've always enjoyed political cartoons - is the Cartoon Museum still in Convent Garden?

Some people don't like them;

MEPs censor anti-EU cartoons from European Parliament exhibition

"Anti-EU cartoons about Brexit and the Greek crisis have been censored from an exhibition in the European Parliament by MEPs, sparking a row over free speech in Brussels."

"Catherine Bearder, the Liberal Democrats’ only MEP, blocked 12 of 28 cartoons by Greek and French cartoonists submitted for display in Brussels next week to mark the 60th anniversary years of the signing of the Treaty of Rome."

"Most of the cartoons criticise the EU and Germany’s handling of the Greek crisis.One showing EU leaders on a plane with Britain outside chopping off the wing also fell foul of the euro-censors."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/18/meps-censor-anti-eu-cartoons-european-parliament-exhibition/

European Parliament censors exhibition of political cartoons

www.neweurope.eu/article/european-parliament-censors-exhibition-political-cartoons/

Mistigri Thu 18-Apr-19 11:36:48

Not a chart, but a visual and thoroughly European depiction of the relationship between Mr Farage and the BBC

This new chart should be read alongside my Farage cartoon, which appears to have gone over the heads of some (I suppose MFL teaching isn't what it once was grin).

Robbie Gibb is currently director of communications at 10 Downing St, and was previously head of BBC Westminster. When the conservative MP Nick Boles resigned recently, he wrote that:

I am no longer a member of the Conservative Party. So I can be blunt where previously I might have been discreet. The PM’s head of communications Robbie Gibb is a hard Brexiter who wants to destroy the PM’s new search for a cross party compromise.

Someone has now analysed Gibb's twitter posts between 2009 and the present, the results are presented in graphical form for your delectation.

1tisILeClerc Thu 18-Apr-19 11:49:37

{I suppose MFL teaching isn't what it once was}
I am very disappointed that since I learned a little French at school 40 years ago, I have never seen a Frenchman wearing a stripey jumper and a beret, riding a bike with a string of onions around his neck.
On the other hand, 'rosbif' seems to have turned into gammon. (A photo of Cameron or in fact many male politicians rather than a chart.)

LeaveOrRemain Fri 19-Apr-19 06:37:37

Anyone would think facts were a threat

The fact that more people voted leave than remain is no threat to me. Biggest threat to the average person in the street in UK is the inability of government to implement the result. Two years of floundering around and what was the outcome? An extension from 29 March to 12 April followed by a further extension to 31 October 2019.

Businesses both in UK and the other EU Countries must be going crazy as they can't plan ahead. Some reports have estimated that UK has lost up to 100 Million per day since the referendum. Staggering sums if correct.

Can't see the WA as it is currently drafted being accepted by MP's as is has already been voted down twice by large margins. Can't see EU changing the WA either. So if UK is not careful they could end up with no deal by default unless EU agrees to extensions forever. Can't see that happening either. So if the figure of 100 Million per day is correct UK will lose more per day than what UK pays into the EU which is 50 Million per day gross before the rebate. After the rebate the net amount is about 35 Million.

Spending 100 Million to save 35 Million does not make much sense. So UK government needs to get a move on as at end of the day it is the UK taxpayer that is being nailed.

lonelyplanetmum Fri 19-Apr-19 07:16:26

Thanks for keeping my little old thread active LeaveOr. Yes I agree that Brexit is leeching millions from our economy and will continue to do so.

I disagree that this means we should get on with it. If the timing was right there'd be an increased Parliamentary and national consensus.

lonelyplanetmum Fri 19-Apr-19 07:26:18

.

lonelyplanetmum Fri 19-Apr-19 07:42:58

Wage increases have not to matched the start of price rises.
Household real incomes been falling since the referendum.
•The savings ratio -- -- measuring the proportion of national income that is not spent dropped to its lowest rate for more than 50 years.
•The household sector has moved into a net financial deficit- borrowing more than it is saving for the first time in 30 years....

lonelyplanetmum Fri 19-Apr-19 07:44:48

.

lonelyplanetmum Fri 19-Apr-19 07:51:01

Stock markets of comparable (developed) economies have risen 28 per cent since the referendum. Compared to our trend starting fall to 6 per cent over the same period,

This devaluation of UK assets.shown in the previous graph.

1tisILeClerc Fri 19-Apr-19 07:56:12

Yet again, the WA will be signed, one way or another.
Read what Mr Barnier says.
'The WA will not be reopened'.
'The EU will not commence trade negotiations until after the WA is signed'.
Mr Barnier and the leaders of 27 countries are standing firm behind these two statements and have done since early December last year.
The EU have been very polite about this, and have offered countless words and actions to help the UK but there is an iron fist behind this at the end of the day so the quicker the HoC/HoL/cabinet get to grips with this reality the better.
A true 'no deal' is not that 'nothing happens' but without the WA being signed a lot of VERY bad and painful things will happen.

lonelyplanetmum Fri 19-Apr-19 08:27:01

a lot of VERY bad and painful things will happen

Agreed. The trends shown on the charts in this thread show only the start of those painful things.

But as our esteemed leader says the people voted for that pain. At least she now admits it.

Mistigri Fri 19-Apr-19 08:34:33

Stock markets are not necessarily a great proxy for economic growth, although the FTSE 250 is better than the FTSE 100.

Larger U.K. companies like my FTSE 100 employer tend to receive a lot of their income from overseas, because most of these companies (despite what brexiters would have you believe) already do substantial amounts of business in the USA, China etc. My employer has multiple US production sites (and has had them many years), we now have several Chinese sites too. Profits from these operations flow back to the U.K. but they do not show up in export stats, because it does not make commercial sense to ship these products halfway round the world when your customers want local suppliers inside regional just-in-time supply chains.

LeaveOrRemain Fri 19-Apr-19 08:36:15

But as our esteemed leader says the people voted for that pain

Because they are entitled to vote how they choose. If at a later date the voters think they have made a bad decision they can vote to rejoin the EU.

LeaveOrRemain Fri 19-Apr-19 08:42:37

Stock markets are not necessarily a great proxy for economic growth, although the FTSE 250 is better than the FTSE 100

True. Did the World go bankrupt after the Stock Market crash in October 1987? UK GDP per capita was not affected at all and increased between 1986 and 1990.

Mistigri Fri 19-Apr-19 08:46:16

People have to be given a choice between concrete outcomes. I don't think a tense situation is helped by offering them a choice (no deal) that sane people know is not capable of being implemented.

LeaveOrRemain Fri 19-Apr-19 08:56:42

concrete outcomes

They don't exist. Nobody on the planet can predict the future with certainty. If they could they would be the richest people on the planet as they would know exactly when and when not to invest.

that sane people know is not capable of being implemented

Former BOE Governor Mervyn King thinks no deal is possible. Guess that makes him insane?

People are entitled to vote how they choose. If at a later date the voters think they have made a bad decision they can vote again.

Mistigri Fri 19-Apr-19 09:01:57

Former BOE Governor Mervyn King thinks no deal is possible. Guess that makes him insane?

It certainly gives cause to wonder if some sort of cognitive impairment is setting in.

LeaveOrRemain Fri 19-Apr-19 09:10:03

impairment

If someone votes differently to others how does that represent impairment? I don't remember the ballot paper saying that if you choose leave it is acknowledgement that you are impaired

People are entitled to vote how they choose. If at a later date the voters think they have made a bad decision they can vote again.

Mistigri Fri 19-Apr-19 09:19:13

Not at all. I can understand, I think, some of the (non-racist) arguments for Brexit put forward by people like Oliver Norgrove and Roland Smith and Ben Kelly among others (all have recanted, by the way).

But there can be some good arguments in favour of something but no political or practical path to achieving it. In this case, the issue is not U.K. policy, but the foreign policy, trade and security imperatives of other states. No deal doesn't work because the people you will need to cooperate in order to make it work - most of whom are outside the U.K. and have their own agendas - will simply not play ball with you.

The US for a start; I shared this elsewhere but it's worth posting here too. It's a twitter thread by Peter Foster of the Daily Telegraph, not a paper noted for its pro-remain stance, about the geopolitical context for the Irish Border and what that means for future US relations in a no-deal context.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1118456412919693312.html

Mistigri Fri 19-Apr-19 09:20:48

Basically, if you want Brexit: support May's deal (I don't support it but if Brexit is important to you, then you should). If you don't want Brexit at all, then support remain or no deal.

1tisILeClerc Fri 19-Apr-19 09:27:56

{ If you don't want Brexit at all, then support remain or no deal.}

With a 'no deal' the WA still has to be signed BEFORE the EU will enter any significant negotiations.
Thus the the 3 choices are: Revoke, WA, or eventually WA but kicking and screaming.

LeaveOrRemain Fri 19-Apr-19 09:27:59

most of whom are outside the U.K. and have their own agendas - will simply not play ball with you

Yes they will, but terms may not be a great as UK thought.

The Irish Border is a relevant point and I am surprised it was not researched by Cameron before he agreed to have a referendum in he won in 2015. Obviously he was certain that remain would win easily as he is a remain supporter.

Also would have though T May would have researched it too before triggering Article 50, but looks like she did not. She too is a remainer?

So from that do we conclude that bad judgment by two remain supporting Prime Ministers is the reason for the mess UK is now in?

prettybird Fri 19-Apr-19 09:31:06

Not sure if this chart has already been posted.

Mistigri Fri 19-Apr-19 09:32:35

So from that do we conclude that bad judgment by two remain supporting Prime Ministers is the reason for the mess UK is now in?

Their judgement was very poor, but to reluctantly give her credit, May has negotiated a Brexit deal (the only Brexit deal on offer) which provides for the only solution to the Irish border problem that takes GB out of both the customs union and single market.

You can Brexit on May's terms, you can Brexit to an as-yet-to-be-negotiated Norway+ type position, or you can not Brexit at all.

Those are the choices. If push comes to shove, the EU and the US will both line up on the side of Ireland.

lonelyplanetmum Fri 19-Apr-19 15:05:27

Thank you for that chart pretty. It's an absolute classic that has been missed I think.

Mistigri your point about both the Solidarity between both the EU and US with Ireland is so pertinent. It's one of those 'can't see the woods for the trees' points that is often missed in our press I think. If you read Irish news you get a very different feeling. The ref has pitted us against Ireland and ( understandably) the world is more lined up on their side.

We have isolated ourselves from everyone but, of course, that's what we wanted.

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