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Charting our nemesis

(286 Posts)
lonelyplanetmum Fri 19-Oct-18 07:12:07

Which chart encapsulates this nightmare for you?

This is the pie chart that I showed my FIL when he was repeating Farage’s drivel. The government’s own 2016 figures showed how statistically insignificant our EU budget percentage contribution always was.

lonelyplanetmum Fri 19-Oct-18 07:16:31

This is another favourite chart from the FT. This information was always available.

The FT commented that economists' consensus was that EU membership directly raised UK prosperity by about 10 per cent.

lonelyplanetmum Fri 19-Oct-18 07:19:10

Then we have the charts that document the last two years...

What's your favourite?

Mrsr8 Fri 19-Oct-18 07:27:31

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lonelyplanetmum Fri 19-Oct-18 07:32:21

I think even the ERG cabal think catharsis is 50 years away.

lonelyplanetmum Sat 20-Oct-18 06:28:20

Here’s another good chart as a quick reference.

The overwhelming consensus is that leaving is bad for the UK.This is taking into account any free trade elsewhere.(From the FT.)

lonelyplanetmum Sat 20-Oct-18 08:08:47

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lonelyplanetmum Sat 20-Oct-18 08:16:19

A picture speaks a thousand words.

lonelyplanetmum Sat 20-Oct-18 08:22:07

https://inktank.fi/15-fantastically-fun-protest-signs-from-the-unite-for-europe-march/

YeOldeTrout Mon 22-Oct-18 11:24:11

love your charts, OP. Happy to see some more!

lonelyplanetmum Mon 22-Oct-18 13:07:06

As you asked Yeoldetrout .

Here's a good one! A classic chart that was contradicted by Farage and co and their fictional propaganda.

EU Migrants contributed approximately £2,300 more each per annum to UK public finances (including NHS funding and adult social care etc) than other U.K. residents.

For EU13+ migrants their contribution is £3,700 per capita higher each per annum to the public finances than the average UK adult. ( EU13+ are the EU members before 2004 plus EEA members plus Switzerland. )

Non-EEA migrants contributed around £840 less..

prettybird Mon 22-Oct-18 13:26:45

So essentially EEA immigrants subsidise the UK citizens! grin

Mistigri Mon 22-Oct-18 15:40:36

So essentially EEA immigrants subsidise the UK citizens!

Pretty much inevitable due to the different age profiles alone. Retired people consume more resources than people of working age, and also pay less tax.

lonelyplanetmum Mon 22-Oct-18 16:05:28

And also use the NHS less.

lonelyplanetmum Mon 22-Oct-18 16:08:30

I know this is old news to most but I'm collecting a quick reference chart guide!

•Contrary to popular belief migrant groups report much better levels of good health than UK natives.

•We are more likely to report suffering from a long-lasting health problem than immigrants who are Seven percentage points less likely to report a long-lasting condition, and 3 percentage points less likely to state that this condition affects working .

•NHS expenditure on EEA migrants was not significant and was lower than average expenditure on non-EEA migrants

Regarding the effects of immigration on NHS waiting times. Immigration reduced waiting times for outpatients.

Fell free to add a chart!

prettybird Mon 22-Oct-18 16:11:27

It's also why the Scottish Government said in its White Paper "Scotland's Future" (who know wink, the one that was produced in advance of the Indyref shock) said that it would be encouraging immigration because it was required for our economy and society, given our otherwise aging population. smile

lonelyplanetmum Tue 23-Oct-18 06:22:48

Hoping a chart a day keeps false rhetoric away.

Mistigri Tue 23-Oct-18 06:27:30

This is a splendid initiative.

lonelyplanetmum Tue 23-Oct-18 06:32:55

Thank you. It's good to have a quick reference collection.

Feel free to post your favourite chart! MN regularly tells me I've posted my six images per day when I've definitely only done one!

Mistigri Tue 23-Oct-18 20:58:19

This is the most Brexity of all Brexit charts

lonelyplanetmum Tue 23-Oct-18 22:34:35

That chart really says it all doesn't it Mistigri.

Encapsulates the arrogant, conceited vainty. Sheer unadulterated hubris.

lonelyplanetmum Tue 23-Oct-18 22:36:25

Here's another one.

Nearly 70% of Britons polled by YouGov in 2018 thought that the government was doing a “bad” job at negotiating the country’s future relationship with the EU, and the rest of the world. Reason again for a re-think about the whole mess.

lonelyplanetmum Wed 24-Oct-18 07:54:31

A picture chart from another thread. We simply can't produce enough food to survive on 'buy British'.

It's not just the 30% of Uk food that is imported from the EU
There is about another 20% imported from the rest of the world - some via the EU.

lonelyplanetmum Wed 24-Oct-18 07:56:19

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Mistigri Wed 24-Oct-18 08:59:43

Here's a new one, courtesy of the government. It's about the state of readiness of border infrastructure.

Tl;dr: it's not ready and it is very unlikely to be ready by next March.

lonelyplanetmum Wed 24-Oct-18 09:26:49

I hadn't seen that one *Misti -*it's the stuff of dystopian nightmares.

lonelyplanetmum Thu 25-Oct-18 07:51:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lonelyplanetmum Thu 25-Oct-18 07:51:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lonelyplanetmum Thu 25-Oct-18 07:51:10

Just adding a link to Misti’s excellent National Audit Office report. It has good charts and is worth a read.Basically an official detailed warning of high risk that the border controls just can’t be ready for no deal due to their scale, complexity and urgency.

https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/The-UK-border-preparedness-for-EU-exit.pdf

lonelyplanetmum Thu 25-Oct-18 07:51:39

Sorry issues with MN!

lonelyplanetmum Thu 25-Oct-18 10:32:36

Wish our govt were as efficient as Mumsnet in resolving issues!

Chart for the day..

lonelyplanetmum Thu 25-Oct-18 10:33:42

Handy quick reference table from HSBC's economics team set out what separation from the EU means for trade etc.
Although looking increasingly likely it will be no deal of course.

lonelyplanetmum Fri 26-Oct-18 06:38:08

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lonelyplanetmum Fri 26-Oct-18 06:39:55

This shows that immigration does not increase unemployment. Another myth.

AndhowcouldIeverrefuse Fri 26-Oct-18 06:47:47

Great thread OP smile

lonelyplanetmum Fri 26-Oct-18 06:50:26

Thanks- feel free to add one!

lonelyplanetmum Sat 27-Oct-18 07:54:36

These are ‘why are we still doing this’ statistics. The previous charts are facts and data based.This recent survey is more about feelings.

83% think the process has been a mess.

73% now realise we need overseas staff to keep the NHS running.

73% think it likely the promises made by politicians to justify relinquishing membership are broken.

73% understand leaving will fundamentally negatively impact the lives of everyone.

64% of people think we will get a bad deal.

63% realise they were misled about the consequences of Brexit before the
referendum

( Based on sample of 10,000 people.)

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulusuploads/document/4e1ciqwvua/Copy%20of%20PV%20results%20180807%20day%20onee_w.pdf

1tisILeClerc Sat 27-Oct-18 08:28:15

Thank you Lonelyplanet
'A chart a day keeps the trolls at bay'.

lonelyplanetmum Sat 27-Oct-18 08:52:21

With your encouragement LeClerc this is not a chart, but an extract of a useful list too.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTIPx0lI6pb-3Tn-3D6uNJNyKcCd-A8uPMxViagyJAR9T87ZmnSdAEPCzp5ljlNYoUNdxJiJqQdBm7b/pubhtml

chocolateworshipper Sat 27-Oct-18 23:04:03

Not a chart, but a link showing how behind DEFRA are. You'll excuse me whilst I snigger about who's in charge of DEFRA ...

www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/12/defras_it_systems_planned_for_brexit_and_not_beyond/?fbclid=IwAR3_kJaFee5XlMUd7G6obt6rCigyn1sEL-mLYCtsfK7-7U0TNB11M5szfis

lonelyplanetmum Sun 28-Oct-18 07:09:52

Thanks Chocolate . Interesting that just installing the IT system in one government department is £32.8m in 2017-2019 . The ongoing annual operational costs not yet addressed at all.Sigh.

Gove’s only tangible example of the benefit of leaving was exporting pig’s ears to China (which we could have done anyway).I doubt that is worth £32 million.

1tisILeClerc Sun 28-Oct-18 07:52:04

Making a 'pigs ear' of things seems to be the governments forte!
Charts, tables, interpretation through dance, anything is good around here! I think it gets extra points if it includes a cute kitten picture however.
The DEFRA computer system needs to up and running (and funded of course) for when the EU subsidies to farmers stop, as well as tracking all animal movements etc of course.

chocolateworshipper Sun 28-Oct-18 09:21:18

Department for Transport expected to spend £96million on Brexit (p13)

www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Implementing-the-UKs-Exit-from-the-European-Union.pdf

lonelyplanetmum Mon 29-Oct-18 08:19:57

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lonelyplanetmum Mon 29-Oct-18 08:20:44

Excellent charts prepared by Oxford Uni researchers show the expected accumulated lost of GDP and impact on young people and the future. It compares a WTO-type deal (which has the most negative impact) and an EEA-type deal (which would have the least impact). This reflects the government's own figures too.

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/ofoc/pages/167/attachments/original/1540483927/REPORT-latest.pdf?1540483927

lonelyplanetmum Mon 29-Oct-18 08:21:59

Chocolate’s post prompted me about a classic chart that is missing so far.

This is the Institute of government’s summary of what the Gov., businesses and individuals need to do to prepare for no deal.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/charts/what-government-needs-do-prepare-no-deal-brexit

Huge work still to prepare for no deal and insufficient time now. . The government’s own notices suggest many U.K. businesses should establish presence in the rest of the EU to continue to serve that market. Incredible. Will affect all sectors from car manufacturing to financial services to biscuits.

lonelyplanetmum Mon 29-Oct-18 08:23:08

A classic from

https://www.myeu.uk/#/

chocolateworshipper Mon 29-Oct-18 19:29:59

Panic over - we're getting a special 50 pence coin. I don't know about you, but that's completely changed my opinion of Brexit ...

lonelyplanetmum Tue 30-Oct-18 07:01:13

This is not a chart on an aspect of the current economic negative impact but an interactive image about the past. It is useful to put extreme Leave supporters arguments in context. The Leave Facebook pages seem to regularly say that the EU owes us some kind of special treatment as we unilaterally made the greatest sacrifice in WWII.This supplies a more accurate context.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cgRwDkP6vk&vl=en-GB

lonelyplanetmum Tue 30-Oct-18 18:32:44

Another classic to add to the collection. The will of the people?

lonelyplanetmum Tue 30-Oct-18 18:42:38

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lonelyplanetmum Tue 30-Oct-18 18:44:38

If not seen this before. So ironic. Of the 28 EU member states, which one has the largest population living outside their country?

Answer: the UK.

Yup-we voted to relinquish valuable E.U. Membership apparently to stop the inflow of EU and non EU immigrants? The fact that the most (4.9 million of our citizens ) are living in other countries has gone mostly unmentioned.

http://metrocosm.com/eu-diaspora-map/

lonelyplanetmum Tue 06-Nov-18 08:53:29

Update

SingingBabooshkaBadly Tue 06-Nov-18 14:48:54

lonelyplanet. I haven’t contributed but I just wanted to say thank you. I bloody love this thread smile

lonelyplanetmum Tue 06-Nov-18 16:11:43

Channel 4 Survation Poll from last night. The will of the people is now remain, as expected.Like Scotland has always England now backs not relinquishing EU membership. Zac Goldsmith take note - the poll estimates that 72% of voters in Richmond and Twickenham back staying in the EU. Kingston is 67%.

lonelyplanetmum Tue 06-Nov-18 16:16:45

Thanks singing.Do post your favourite chart.
Previous post should read " Like Scotland and NI have always done, both England and Wales also now back not relinquishing EU membership."

lonelyplanetmum Tue 06-Nov-18 20:53:01

This one is more of a quick reference diagram showing where Arron Banks and more worryingly Robert Mercer fit in.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy

lonelyplanetmum Wed 07-Nov-18 05:43:15

If you haven’t studied this yet it’s really worth a read.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTIPx0lI6pb-3Tn-3D6uNJNyKcCd-A8uPMxViagyJAR9T87ZmnSdAEPCzp5ljlNYoUNdxJiJqQdBm7b/pubhtml

lonelyplanetmum Wed 07-Nov-18 05:44:27

Just a selection from this last week

•Europe’s biggest repo trading venue moves from London to Amsterdam-BrokerTec
•Michelin closing down Dundee factory.Further investment no longer viable.
•BNP Paribus (who has previously moved staff) says it will move more jobs if no deal.

1tisILeClerc Wed 07-Nov-18 07:48:52

Is there a figure for the number of EU citizens who have NOT contributed to the UK tax system who have left the UK? (the low paid, 'under the radar' veg and fruit pickers for example).

lonelyplanetmum Wed 07-Nov-18 09:59:17

I will look for agricultural worker statistics but there is evidence that relinquishing EU membership has caused EU workers to leave.

There are also NHS statistics of an acute crisis staffing levels leading to a dangerous level of under-resourcing in the NHS.80% of respondents – which included nurses, doctors and managers –raised concerns about insufficient staff on to give patients safe and care. My friend who’s an NHS consultant says patients definitely die because the plans they put in place for patients can’t be implemented.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/eu-workers-leaving-britain-because-of-brexit-ons-data-2018-8

FishesaPlenty Wed 07-Nov-18 18:53:35

I feel I could waste a lot of energy drawing tenuous links between the historical genetic roots of the population in various areas and the way they voted. Bloody Saxons.

lonelyplanetmum Wed 07-Nov-18 21:32:37

9,000 BC - that's when people started flowing between France,Germany and here. Odd to take against it in June 2016 really.

lonelyplanetmum Wed 07-Nov-18 22:12:14

The closet parallels in those who voted Leave was not age, wealth, northern/southern residence etc. The closet predictor of Leave voting was a belief in reintroduction of the death penalty.

An argument for why referenda shouldn't be held really!

lonelyplanetmum Wed 07-Nov-18 22:29:22

This graph may be historic now but a powerful part of understanding the mindset of voters.

The survey responses (restricted to White British for some reason) showed almost no statistically significant difference in remain/ leave between rich and poor. By contrast, the probability of voting to ditch EU membership goes up to 70 per cent for those most in favour of the death penalty.

lonelyplanetmum Thu 08-Nov-18 13:07:23

#ECForecast europa.eu/!Xm99Nt

From another thread ..Just don't compare it to where we were before the ref.

lonelyplanetmum Mon 12-Nov-18 21:16:40

Graphic showing the votes needed in the HoC to approve a deal from another thread.

lonelyplanetmum Tue 13-Nov-18 18:11:11

Rise in the^ pound^ today as the news emerges of a deal being struck- before Parliament votes on it of course.^(times in the graph are US).^

lonelyplanetmum Fri 16-Nov-18 19:01:17

Handy chart showing some tariffs that could apply under WTO terms- note the 30% + tariffs.

http://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/potentialpostbrexittariffcostsforeuuktrade.pdf

lonelyplanetmum Fri 16-Nov-18 19:02:49

BBC are copying the chart thing now!
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj18djXy9neAhXpJMAKHVUzBbAQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-46234602&psig=AOvVaw34AXVvj-EbfRA5VauZ7NPq&ust=1542481012177758

lonelyplanetmum Fri 16-Nov-18 19:03:43

Sorry link fail!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46234602

lonelyplanetmum Wed 21-Nov-18 08:16:13

This is from the world economic forum showing the world's $80 trillion economy in one chart.

lonelyplanetmum Wed 21-Nov-18 08:18:01

With no deal, British GDP growth would end up 8 percent lower over the following 15 years according to the government’s own (eventually revealed) reports. So we would look smaller than Italy. Of course we would also no longer have the weight of the green coloured group behind us.

lonelyplanetmum Mon 26-Nov-18 17:10:07

Good summary chart posted on the Westminsterenders thread to add to the collection.
This summarises^ the possible outcomes and the economic^ risks/^ consequences of each^.

lonelyplanetmum Wed 05-Dec-18 18:20:20

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lonelyplanetmum Tue 11-Dec-18 15:23:14

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lonelyplanetmum Thu 13-Dec-18 11:53:49

For quick reference

lonelyplanetmum Mon 17-Dec-18 06:35:05

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTIPx0lI6pb-3Tn-3D6uNJNyKcCd-A8uPMxViagyJAR9T87ZmnSdAEPCzp5ljlNYoUNdxJiJqQdBm7b/pubhtml

lonelyplanetmum Mon 17-Dec-18 06:35:58

Job loss spreadsheet from Brexit job losses including Jaguar Landrover

lonelyplanetmum Tue 18-Dec-18 21:50:21

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lonelyplanetmum Thu 20-Dec-18 06:59:02

Under WTO rules, British exports to the EU would be hit by tariffs of £6bn . Combined with the affect on Imports increases the cost of living in the UK.

lonelyplanetmum Thu 20-Dec-18 07:03:02

5 simple charts on what WTO means here.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/19/what-a-no-deal-brexit-could-mean-for-the-uk-in-five-charts

lonelyplanetmum Thu 20-Dec-18 22:22:07

Whilst England insists on implementing the will of 52% of people back in 2016- those most affected by all this show that 65% want to remain in the SM+CU

lonelyplanetmum Sat 26-Jan-19 05:39:47

Haven't added a chart for a while. It seems too late now, but ...

At least this one will be an historical record of how certain politicians manipulated the true position.

This is s good one.

http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1087360379691380736.html

lonelyplanetmum Sat 26-Jan-19 05:41:29

Sorry- link

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1087360379691380736.html

CountessConstance Sat 26-Jan-19 13:29:05

Fascinating thread. Thank you @lonelyplanetmum

lonelyplanetmum Sun 27-Jan-19 08:41:35

Thank you- feel free to add any you come across.

lonelyplanetmum Sun 27-Jan-19 22:38:24

Useful mind map.

From @ jon worth

TheWomanin12B Sun 27-Jan-19 22:40:03

Love this thread, thank you.

lonelyplanetmum Sun 27-Jan-19 22:58:07

Thank you. Link to chart.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jonworth/status/1085868982647877632/photo/1

lonelyplanetmum Thu 31-Jan-19 03:52:04

Useful quick reference list of WTO tariffs.

lonelyplanetmum Thu 31-Jan-19 03:54:15

Useful chart showing our reliance on food imports.

CountessConstance Sun 03-Feb-19 10:54:21

This is a great thread lonely planet.

It's an interesting breakdown re food imports...would be interesting to see a further breakdown of the 30% originating from the EU i.e. the relative weight of prosecco, butter, chorizo, milk and stollen.

lonelyplanetmum Mon 04-Feb-19 15:13:57

YouGov.

lonelyplanetmum Mon 25-Feb-19 17:58:57

Just a chart to show the irony that we are trashing the economy (on the gov's own figures) despite the fact that there is now a further increase in the solid majority who would vote to retain EU membership. The Recent data is from a NatCen "poll of polls" and research from Morgan Stanley.


"The government is determined to exit the EU and Theresa May refuses to countenance letting the public revisit the question, even though the public is increasingly against Brexit."

prettybird Mon 25-Feb-19 23:07:08

Someone linked to the news from last November that FDI (Foreign Direct Investment) to the UK had dropped 19% in 2017 to below that of Germany, with France coming up fast on the UK's heels.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/01/brexit-could-cause-serious-damage-for-foreign-investment-into-the-uk-new-study-says.html

I wonder what the 2018 figures will be? hmm

I found this graph last summer to add to this thread.

prettybird Mon 25-Feb-19 23:20:05

Looked up the most recent figures from Trading Economics....

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/foreign-direct-investment

Can't get my phone to zoom out to get a decent picture, but this snapshot gives an accurate feel of its trajectory sad

Millyonthe Tue 26-Feb-19 08:47:53

Thought provoking.
How have we actually benefited by focusing so much on trading with Germany, Spain etc in recent years?
Wouldn't we be better off concentrating on our trade with Ireland and Scandinavia - and the other world countries where we enjoy a trade surplus – the US, Australia, Switzerland, South Korea etc.

lonelyplanetmum Tue 26-Feb-19 09:20:10

I'm not sure it helps to separate out individual EU countries as they're part of a ( very successful) trading bloc. Ireland and Sweden, Denmark,Finland ( Norway slightly different ) can't strike separate future trade deals. These would be part of an EU deal (if any)?

Our previous trade was 57% of exports and 66% of imports in with countries we have EU trade agreements (not under WTO).

https://fullfact.org/europe/does-most-uk-trade-happen-outside-eu-and-trade-agreements/

lonelyplanetmum Tue 26-Feb-19 09:39:27

One thing I was going to say to Pretty was that what's interesting is the variety of sources on this thread ...all pointing in the same (downwards) direction.

The Info is from diverse sources including the govt itself, You.Gov, Business insider,WTO, Association of Irish Market research, ONS, Morgan Stanley, Financial Times, Natixis, the Economist, National audit office, HSBC, Oxford university, OECD, institute for government, Civitass, World economic forum etc etc etc.

Yet the government and many voters just don't listen. Taking the country as a whole, people like JRM, Leadsome, Redwood or features written by journo's in the Sun, Express and Mail all carry more gravitas than the above diverse sources... it's a weird imbalance.

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