OK, lets put it this way, what do we want done?(629 Posts)
Its all going so badly and everyone is worried, but what can be done?
Do we want another referendum and the whole Brexit thing aborted? Do we want another leader doing something different? Do we think Teresa May is doing everything that can be done?
I say "do we think" but to be honest, I don't think anything either way of Teresa May, I don't know what to think.
I don't know what could make things better at this stage
I want Theresa May to negotiate a soft Brexit where we remain in the single market and customs union. And for the Brexiters to STFU.
I don't know what could make things better at this stage
Rescind article 50
What's the point of Brexit if we stay in the customs union and single market? And anyway, we can't cherry pick the bits of the EU we like. We're in, or we're out.
Personally, I think TM is doing as good a job as anyone else could do. It's not an easy job, and whatever she does 50% of the population won't like it.
We voted out. Let's get out, and get on with rebuilding in independent country.
Can't remain because will of the people.
Can't stay in SM and CU because controlling borders and Brexit means Brexit and sovereignty.
That leaves leave.
Can't negotiate a deal because no deal is better than a bad deal and won't blink first.
herat interesting choice of word 'REbuild'... so brexit will destroy the country in your own opinion?
'I don't know what could make things better at this stage
Rescind article 50
Totally agree. Show some leadership and say to the country 'we tried chaps, we really did, for 2 years but we simply cannot and will not put the country's future at risk in this reckless way. So we're staying'
I know that Reece Mogg will explode and Farage will be stirring shit up again like his life depends on it, but all that still has to be preferable than a no deal situation
Norway considers selves outside EU. They seem satisfied that their status is definitively out but conveniently close. Similar for Faroes & Switzerland.
If May had held back & made Brexiters fight it out, we would have arrived at this shitstorm a lot faster & a public revote would already have reversed the 2016 Referendum. May is papering over the cracks pretending there is a satisfactory solution to Norn or barrier free trade with EU that doesn't involve being in the SM.
I'm so torn about this.
If we don't leave I really think there will be civil unrest and large chunks of people will never trust politicians again.
What most people probably want is to stay is he CU and SM, but end freedom of movement. Not going to be acceptable to Brussels.
The best outcome I can see is that we somehow extend A50 (not straightforward) and fudge a half exit, supposedly short term but no one gets round to changing it.
Not a good outcome I grant you, but everything else seems worse.
And if there is a second referendum, for the love of sanity do not offer ' no deal' as one of the options. No deal is not any kind of viable option for our country. Do not offer it as an option to the people. No. Just no.
I think they should do something like have a task force to send round the country and ask people what they really need. Chances are it will be good jobs, housing, decent schools and healthcare - all things well within the compass of Westminster to provide. E.g. ditch the nonsense of not letting Local Authorities build a school where there is a need - an Academy chain or Free school has to be the provider.
Then pause A50 at least until a plan is put in place to provide these things, and see whether people are really bothered about leaving the EU or not.
[Hint - they are not, look how threads get shunted into the Brexit heading.]
I am not convinced that TM is doing as good a job as anyone. If she had started off which a much more conciliatory tone she may well have got much further.
The only way Brexiters will believe it's a bad decision is when the country is on its knees and then it will be the fault of politicians, remainers, Brussels or bloody Martians.
It's true you can't argue with stupid. There are still posters saying "let's get out and get on with it' - if only it was that easy. Totally dismissing intractable issues like the NI boarder.
Tories are starting to talk about stockpiling.
Parliament should find it's nerve and rescind article 50. I think we will need another referendum to make it legitimate in the eyes of the (massively ignorant and uneducated) public.
For the love of God we can't run into this disaster with our eyes open.
Everything Lottapianos says...
I would bet that if there was another referendum a lot of people would have changed their minds. It's too big an issue not to have another check-in with the electorate two years on.
Let's get out, and get on with rebuilding in independent country.
What on earth are you trying to say?
Dig deep and come up with something that isn’t a meaningless slogan.
Links arms with HelpMe and waves EU flag......
That's the point Helmet faced with this insanity. JRM is saying 50 years ffs. Faced with that people still churn out nonsense slogans that mean nothing.
How will you rebuild this independent country?
What's the point of Brexit if we stay in the customs union and single market?
There is no point in Brexit. Full stop.
But if we leave the EU but remain in the single market and customs union we can technically respect the result of the referendum without properly fucking up the economy (and peace and stability in Northern Ireland) for the next generation.
And at least it’ll hopefully shut up the
idiots people who wrongly believe that if we stayed in the EU we would be forced to adopt the euro and other such rubbish.
Soft Brexit = basically the opposite of what a large portion of leave voters thought they'd were voting for. Still in the CU but no control over movement of population.
Hard Brexit = dreadful for the economy, no transition period, tailbacks at the channel, etc.
Re-run the referendum / rescind A50 = not democratic, what's done is done, Remain voters should accept the outcome, we need to focus on the future, etc.
Is there a positive option at this point? The Tories screwed up, big time, by drafting the referendum so badly. No wonder David Cameron quit.
I want us to leave with no deal leading to the country being on its knees and for Leavers to actually realise what they've caused.
The more hardship for Leavers the better in my opinion right now. I just wish those who voted against this wouldn't suffer too.
It's the absolute only way we can now move on.
Sadly, what will happen is BINO with Leavers whinging forever more about 'what might have been' and blaming everything and everybody for their unicorns not appearing,
Soft Brexit = basically the opposite of what a large portion of leave voters thought they'd were voting for.
I don’t give a shiny shit and neither should Theresa May. Those people are stupid and they’re also not a majority any way you like to fiddle it.
If the referendum had been a choice between remain and hard leave (i.e. no single market, no customs union, border in Ireland, no financial services passporting, the whole bloody lot) then leave would not have won.
Leave only won by a small margin even when they were promising everyone £350m a week
and a pet unicorn .
* Re-run the referendum / rescind A50 = not democratic, what's done is done,*
I don't know how else to say this. You are wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
How can you argue and debate with this? How?
In the U.K. Parliament is sovereign the referendum was advisory. These are facts, that means they are true. When something is true, you can not like it, you can wish it was different but it remains true.
If our democratically elected, sovereign parliament, rescinds Article 50 it would be entirely democratic. True fact.
I do wonder if there is any mileage in nullifying and rerunning the vote in London
I was very surprised at the time that it was considered legitimate, as massive flash flooding gridlocked the whole transport system and prevented many thousands of voters reaching their polling stations.
Maybe in other places too, I only know about London, but surely huge swathes of the population being effectively disenfranchised by the weather should have been challenged at the ti
I know MousseMoose but that particular line gets trotted out all the time on MN. I thought my feelings about that were pretty plain from the tone of my post.
And- we are not Norway, with its tiny, homogenous, equality based population, but with shed loads of well-invested oil wealth; nor are we Switzerland with its tiny, localist, homogenous and fiercely independent people/s, awash with private capital- harbouring 'tax' payments- complete with some border controls/ immigrantion legislation-,the EU regret granting.
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