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Westminstenders: Sucking up to the 'enemy'

(980 Posts)
RedToothBrush Tue 17-Oct-17 18:09:04

Phil Hammond called the EU the enemy. Then retracted it. A classic political move, to pitch to one group and then say you didn't mean it after all.

This is the UK's negotiation strategy. Because the negotiation isn't really with the EU. Its the ongoing debate over the what leaving the EU actually means since it wasn't officially defined prior to the referendum and has been left to politicians to say its one thing to persuade people to support them and then decided no that's not really what they meant after all.

The whole thing makes it impossible for the EU to respond to us, because we don't appear to know what we want.

The EU have been explicit in their position. So things they can not do because of the limitations of trade rules and EU law. Its possible work arounds could be possible for some things - but certainly not all which too many Brexiteers fail to acknowledge.

And then there is the a50 deadline which is like a snake coiled around May's neck slowly strangling her. A self imposed screwing of our negotiating position. One that kills off our Brexit options and ups the stakes into a brinkmanship battle - not with the EU but between the hardlines and the sane. Its not even about remaining, though that option might well end up being the only option left on the table through our own folly, rather than out of EU malice.

The longer we take to work out what we want the higher the stake become and the more we destroy the foundations of our economy in the meantime, even if we do stay in.

We have only just noticed that we've lost money worth 25% of our GDP and we have no net assets anymore, when in early 2016 we had significant assets. Project Fear they said was wrong. Well was it?

We are flat broke as a nation.

Then there is the Great Repel Bill. The Bill was supposed to be in the Commons this week. It was delayed a week due to the sheer number of amendments. There are nearly a dozen with enough Tory rebels to make them stick. Including one for parliament to have a meaningful vote on what option we take - including no deal. If parliament rejected this, we would be left in a situation where we sure as hell better hope a50 is reversible or we could end up unlawfully leave the EU by accident!

And the Lords could be fun for the Repel Bill. The Labour whip has vowed to examine every amendment properly even if the commons don't. And they are free and within their rights to do so.

Still May could exit stage left. Or left with egg all over her face as she has to suck up to the 'enemy' for being such a tool for the last 18months, because she hasn't made progress on the negotiations that really matter. The Tory party ones.

Whichever way you cut it, you can be sure on only one thing: it will go to the wire for both. And possibly beyond with an eleventh hour extension to prevent chaos.

There are hints that the public mood might be changing. Not fast enough. Yet. Interest rates? A break in the triple lock? Phil's budget sure will be interesting. Especially as Brexiteers want money to prepare and protect us from a no deal scenario which they also tell us will be just fine and won't be a problem. Bye Bye NHS, don't get flu this winter. As a note once infamously said: 'There's no many left'.

We are Greece. Only worse. And out of pressure and deadlines we alone created. We just haven't realised it. Yet.

And if this doesn't make you cringe and brace yourself in horror:

Danny Kemp‏ @dannyctkemp
May wants to take the floor at EU summit dinner on Thursday to explain Brexit policy to fellow leaders, senior official says

Just remember her party speech and think: What could possibly go wrong...

Badders08 Tue 17-Oct-17 18:11:27

Cheers red
Sterling work as ever x

BiglyBadgers Tue 17-Oct-17 18:20:56

Whoop! New thread in da house shock

BiglyBadgers Tue 17-Oct-17 18:21:34

Oh yes....and absolutely sterling work red grin

LurkingHusband Tue 17-Oct-17 18:23:28


CardinalSin Tue 17-Oct-17 18:44:46

Thanks Red. Beermat King.

HashiAsLarry Tue 17-Oct-17 18:44:56

Thanks as ever rtb

RedToothBrush Tue 17-Oct-17 18:51:48
Home Office recruiting 1,200 staff to register 3m EU nationals in UK
Amber Rudd says the ‘default position’ will be to accept applications

Outlining her plans for the mass registration effort, the home secretary said a new online system to confer “settled status” on EU residents would be up and running by the end of 2018. This will replace the much-criticised 85-page permanent residence application form, which requires documentary proof of residence and earnings over five years.

By contrast, Ms Rudd said the new form would be designed specifically for EU nationals and that the “default position” would be to accept their applications unless there were concerns over fraud or criminality. The system will automatically link up with HM Revenue & Customs and the Department for Work and Pensions to lessen the bureaucratic burden on applicants, she explained.

RedToothBrush Tue 17-Oct-17 18:55:06
Theresa May meets Tory Universal Credit rebels to avoid vote loss
Dissatisfied MPs present a list of demands to improve the scheme, which has been beset with problems since a trial roll-out

Theresa May has met with Conservative MPs threatening to rebel over the Government's flagship welfare reforms in a bid to avert a public showdown in the House of Commons.

The Prime Minister met with Heidi Allen, Sarah Wollaston and Johnny Mercer on Tuesday afternoon to listen to their concerns over the roll-out of Universal Credit, which was meant to simplify and streamline the benefits system but has been beset with problems.

The meeting comes ahead of two events that will put the troubled roll-out into the spotlight on Wednesday.

WhollyFather Tue 17-Oct-17 18:56:58

I presume either you are paid by the EU to compose these great long screeds of anti-Brexit propaganda, or else you have some personal vested interest in the UK staying members. Why else would you bother, nearly 16 months after Leave won the referendum?

We're leaving. There will be no deal because the EU is too vindictive, too incompetent and too disorganised to sort one out, despite it benefitting them more than it does us, but we'll be fine trading with EU member states on a WTO basis like we currently trade with most of the rest of the world. We still have our own seat on the WTO, of course, although we can't use it at the moment because the EU won't let us.

The actual story of the ONS and the 'missing' £490bn can be found here.

Badders08 Tue 17-Oct-17 18:58:04

Evening comrade!

HashiAsLarry Tue 17-Oct-17 19:06:04

Unusually wordy 😂

Today hasn't been a good day for those who don't like their cages rattled.

OlennasWimple Tue 17-Oct-17 19:08:10

The same Home Office who intended to cut 8,500 people, including 2,000 from borders and immigration....? (I can't find a reliable figure on how many people actually left under redundancy, early retirement etc etc)

Thanks again Red

BestIsWest Tue 17-Oct-17 19:10:56

Thanks Red

RedToothBrush Tue 17-Oct-17 19:13:36

I presume either you are paid by the EU to compose these great long screeds of anti-Brexit propaganda, or else you have some personal vested interest in the UK staying members. Why else would you bother, nearly 16 months after Leave won the referendum?

I'm not paid. I have no other particular personal vested interest above my EU citizenship.

Why else would I bother after 16months?

Well, try starting with EU nationals being bargaining chips and Northern Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement then go from there. Both things that I care about a good deal and have done for what... about 24 years. Why would I stop caring about them after all that time?

As for the WTO status stuff... where to start with the problems that are yet to be resolved on that one? I know. The Malvinas is a good one.

woman11017 Tue 17-Oct-17 19:15:00

grin badders
flowers thanks as ever red

woman11017 Tue 17-Oct-17 19:17:36

When will our political class admit responsibility? We are now in a depressing situation.

Old HAP in chief not a happy brexit bunny.

Plonkysaurus Tue 17-Oct-17 19:24:24

Spot of gardening anyone? I need to cut back my buddleia but haven't the foggiest where to start.

Icantreachthepretzels Tue 17-Oct-17 19:28:58

or else you have some personal vested interest in the UK staying members

Does not wanting food shortages, petrol shortages, potential rioting, a slump in the pound, a massive recession, personal savings being wiped out, rising unemployment, a brain drain of our countries best and brightest, no aeroplanes flying abroad, our passports becoming useless, Kent turning into a lorry park, an end to the nhs, and an end to cancer treatments (radiotherapy) and even power shortages if we crash out of Eurotom class as a vested interest?

Does wanting to still be able to travel abroad to 27 other countries, to live and work there if I choose, with no hassle, reciprocal healthcare and pensions, health and safety regulations that should prevent tragedies like Grenfell from happening (if our own government ever deigns to follow them), workers rights, maternity rights, The European court to appeal to for if our own system ever lets me down, food standards, functioning supply chains, and the ability to help shape the future of an entire continent count as a vested interest?

You know, folks, I think my interest might just be vested.

No doubt people such as whollyfather believes this is enough to have me interned in a camp somewhere. I'm pretty sure my entire post is classed as treason these days.

Peregrina Tue 17-Oct-17 19:31:41

I misread his name as woollyfather. Perhaps it was the woolly thinking which put that in my mind.

frumpety Tue 17-Oct-17 19:40:51

Nicked from another thread smile

prettybird Tue 17-Oct-17 19:42:51

Personally, it would be in my interests for Brexit to fail dismally and pull England fUKd and the Tories down with it, because it would help the cause of Scottish independence wink

However, since I am a decent human being (and not paid for this grin), I don't wish the devastation on England that a Hard Brexit (or worse, No Deal) would bring, or the risk to NI and the laboriously negotiated GFA.

We've obviously got the more rabid of the Brexiters worried if they're complaining that we are still complaining 16 months after the "advisory" Referendum grin After all, if it's such a Done Deal (or even a No Deal), why would they be concerned what we think? confused

Excellent way to place mat king wink

BiglyBadgers Tue 17-Oct-17 19:44:31

or else you have some personal vested interest in the UK staying members

I think it's pretty clear everyone in the country has a personal vested interest in the UK staying a member of the EU hmm

thecatfromjapan Tue 17-Oct-17 19:46:46

smile Hello Lovely People.

flowers Red.

OlennasWimple Tue 17-Oct-17 19:51:47

Plonky - I am amazed by how much pruning my bougainvilleas like (or maybe even need) to get their flowers through. It's very satisfying to know that in effect it's impossible to get it wrong and do too much

Buddleia - cut back to where you want it to be making sure you use sharp secateurs and cut at an angle just above a pair of shoots

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