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Westminstenders: Beano or Bust

(979 Posts)
RedToothBrush Fri 29-Sep-17 21:33:39

The last week has seemingly been eventful but not in the way that's on the surface.

It's what's going on behind the scenes and the little comments in less high profile speeches that's more telling.

On the one hand the Norths think the May speech is a laying down "an offer" that the EU can not accept, in order to set up a no deal situation.

On the other hand Telegraph Journalist Peter Foster thinks there things going on in Brussels with the EU set to compromise in someway and help May present a deal acceptable to the British. You have to wonder whether the "presentational" stuff is about a deal to essentially be in the EU but not in the EU. A Brexit Existing in A Name Only. Beano.

It's difficult to tell, and it will come down to brinkmanship over timing. For both a deal and for the Repel Bill as the two sides in parliament try to push things to their limit for their own ends.

In this vacuum of uncertainty CBI and their "arch enemies" the TUC have put out a joint statement saying no deal is nuts and will screw every one and the way EU cits have been treated has been dreadful.

As it stands it does look like May is serious about a deal and Davis is also acting in this way. Johnson and Hannan have launched their Institute for Free Trade (at the foreign office breaking ministerial code, but hell there's no consequences these days anyway cos May dare not let Johnson off the Brexit hook) in retaliation to try and retell the Brexit story as always being about free trade rather than racist. Unfortunately leavers seem to have bust that by admitting they are considerably more racist than Remainers by their own admission.

Then there's Trump and Bombardier. Just as Brexiteers are pushing for this closer relationship with the US in trade, despite May personally lobbying Trump he fucks her over slapping 220% tariff on Bombardier and putting the future of 4000 jobs at risk. This was inevitable as Trump fucks everyone for his own gain. The US won't ride to the aid of the British capitalists. They'll just eat them alive.

This week sees an important vote by the European Parliament on Brexit red lines. One of the votes states that the UK has to either stay in the customs union and internal market or NI has to have a special arrangement and stay in the customs union and the internal market in order to protect the EUs border integrity. Neither is compatible with what the Cons and the DUP have said they want.

It's also the Tory Party conference.May's big speech, in which she must throw red meat to the swivel eyed loons on right, is on Weds. There are of course, no debates at ConParty because, well, they can't behave like good little children without supervision. Instead the conference is to, erm... yeah we'll find out next week.

EverythingWillBeGreat Fri 29-Sep-17 21:40:39

Still following.
Thanks rtb

And wondering what the heck is going on with the arrest and FB etc....

BigChocFrenzy Fri 29-Sep-17 21:42:41

Another great OP to summarise events. Thanks, red flowers

Much to my surprise, I think May's Flo speech did indeed reboot the negotiations.

Maybe because she used the exact words about the exit bill that the EU Commission wanted to be openly said.
That could have been Olly Robbins using his contacts to find out what the EU wanted to hear, then match it up with what May was prepared to give

thecatfromjapan Fri 29-Sep-17 21:43:05

Great opening post, RTB . Thanks.

artisancraftbeer Fri 29-Sep-17 21:48:25

Hello, place mat Viking.

BigChocFrenzy Fri 29-Sep-17 21:52:39

Shutting down FB or Twitter of opponents is something that the alt-right have started doing - happened in Germany
Very worrying and we need to stop that

The govt are obviously cross and frustrated - this negotiating lark is much more complicated than Arron Banks and co. had said.
Hence, they return to what they are good at:
arresting people

The Official Secrets Act is, imo, one of the reasons for decades of incompetence in the way we are governed:
it can be used to hide anything that might be embarrassing to a govt

Arrest is always a risk a civil service leaker or whistleblower takes, unlike an employee who leaks company secrets]

Of course, the leaked Official Secrets may just be the information that the govt are all idiots, all at sea.
which is hardly a secret to anyone, let alone the canny Barrier
But it is still a vital secret to be kept from voters, especially Leave voters

BigChocFrenzy Fri 29-Sep-17 21:58:15

(Paywall) *Boeing has power to turn off planes say British military chiefs*

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/boeing-has-power-to-turn-off-planes-say-british-military-chiefs-l9x9bm53k

A trade row with Boeing could result in the US aerospace company “turning off” Britain’s attack helicopters, military transport aircraft and a planned fleet of submarine-detecting planes,
sources said last night.

The Ministry of Defence is buying 50 Apache AH-64E helicopters and nine P-8 maritime patrol aircraft from the US government.
It already operates a fleet of C-17 transport aircraft and 60 Chinook helicopters.
All the aircraft are built by Boeing.

Part of the multibillion-pound deal is for the US manufacturer to provide upgrades and support for the technology on the aircraft,
meaning that any breakdown in relations between Britain and Boeing could affect their serviceability.

“Boeing owns the data.
You buy the data.
You rely on the original equipment manufacturer for the key to the data, servicing and upgrades,”
a former four-star officer said.

“If you piss Boeing off, what are you going to do?
They can turn the fleet off.”

IdontlooklikeEmmaWatson Fri 29-Sep-17 22:03:52

Grateful shameless place marking thanks.

prettybird Fri 29-Sep-17 22:15:47

We do seem to be living in heading towards a dystopian world that is a combination of "1984" and "Animal Farm" with elements of "The Handmaid's Tale" sad

Big Brother does indeed seem to be watching us and attempts are made to re-write history via the Internet or lazy journalists not challenging politicians re interpretation of "facts" - was it Orwell rather than Jules Verne who had a time machine wink - while all people are equal but some people are more equal than others (DUP supporters versus the rest in NI, UK compared with EU citizens - ex-pats gracing countries with their presence if you're UK citizens, or nasty immigrants if they are EU citizens in the UK confused).

TheElementsSong Fri 29-Sep-17 22:18:27

Thanks for the new thread, RTB.

Boeing has power to turn off planes say British military chiefs

Can't decide whether to grin or shock at that. Don't They Know Who We Are?

squishysquirmy Fri 29-Sep-17 22:19:20

We don't know for certain that that the woman arrested by counter-terrorism police under the official secrets act and the person arrested under the same act for leaking stuff to the European Commission do we?
I hope not, because if that is the case then that is such a brazen misinterpretation of "terrorism" and I sincerely hope it gets some media attention at some point and that they are allowed to report it properly.

I do think that there are occasions when punishment for leaking state secrets is justified, but it is such a fine balance and is already oversused imo. Using the counter terrorism police if it has nothing to do with terrorism is something else altogether though - a very disturbing development.

QuentinSummers Fri 29-Sep-17 22:20:26

Much to my surprise, I think May's Flo speech did indeed reboot the negotiations.
I've been thinking about this and I don't think it's what she said in the speech. I think the subtext was she's the boss, not Davis. That fits with staff moving to the cabinet office etc. The EU would prefer to negotiate with TM than Dickhead Davis

squishysquirmy Fri 29-Sep-17 22:21:41

^ should say that we don't know if they are same person.
Too worked up to type properly!
(Thanks for all the threads Red.)

LurkingHusband Fri 29-Sep-17 22:22:54

.

RedToothBrush Fri 29-Sep-17 22:25:13

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
Boris has ensured we will be talking about Boris non stop in Manchester. See tonight’s @TheSun interview with @tnewtondunn

Peregrina Fri 29-Sep-17 22:25:31

Shutting down FB or Twitter of opponents is something that the alt-right have started doing - happened in Germany
Very worrying and we need to stop that

We have to go back to the old ways. E.g. as peace group activists in the early 80s we organised ourselves into small groups, with a 'link' person, who would be a member but not leader of another group. We organised 'telephone trees' to disseminate information. This was before social media came into being. It used to work pretty well. Social media has made it a little too easy, but as we are beginning to see, makes us vulnerable.

woman11017 Fri 29-Sep-17 22:32:44

Good point, Peregrina. Women had much more equal status in the 1980s movements too which made organisation better and responsibilities shared more equitably. (only one female speaker on the posters for Manchester, I noticed) It's not exactly that the official 'alt right' are doing it, BCF, I think it's FB itself. Twitter seems to be fine.
[flower] thanks red

RedToothBrush Fri 29-Sep-17 22:33:15

FT Westminster @ ftwestminster
UK housebuilders hope for more Help-to-Buy cash
amp.ft.com/content/38549050-a52c-11e7-9e4f-7f5e6a7c98a2

Retweeted by

Jim Pickard @ PickardJE
Big Theresa May housing announcement expected on Sunday....

woman11017 Fri 29-Sep-17 22:33:45

ha ha flowers red grin

woman11017 Fri 29-Sep-17 22:36:23

UK housebuilders hope for more Help-to-Buy cash

Tory MP and wife used taxpayer-backed Help to Buy loan to snap up new constituency house

Peter Bone and his wife used the scheme to borrow £35,000 towards the cost of their new-build home interest-free, and backed by the taxpayer

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-mp-wife-used-taxpayer-7449766

Lico Fri 29-Sep-17 22:36:57

Thanks Red.

RedToothBrush Fri 29-Sep-17 22:45:09

Times front page is anti-Johnson with sub headline that Ruth Davidson attacks overoptimistic Brexiteers

RedToothBrush Fri 29-Sep-17 22:50:16

www.thesun.co.uk/news/4579862/boris-johnson-pm-pay-cap-minimum-wage/amp/
WAGE BOOST Boris Johnson wants PM to deliver public sector pay rise – funded by layoffs

Just a second point about this headline. What happened to the extra £350 million he promised to the NHS?

BigChocFrenzy Fri 29-Sep-17 22:54:21

woman My understanding is that alt-right groups organise so that a stream of their activists complain to FB, Twitter etc to try to get their opponents blocked

BigChocFrenzy Fri 29-Sep-17 22:58:08

If the Brexiters' European Research Group can use WhatsApp without hindrance, then Remainers should be able to
That's good for organising

What the hard right are trying to shut down are publicity and public debate

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