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Westministenders: Its WAR. Huh!? What is that good for? Negotiations apparently

(997 Posts)
RedToothBrush Fri 05-May-17 22:39:19

Theresa May has declared war on the EU. She is going to be a ‘bloody difficult woman’ after she got caught out by a highly predictable leak.

Apparently, the EU are trying to rig an election she seems almost dead cert to win. They deliberately timed the leak to interfere with an election May decided the timing of. May was not supposed to be at the dinner, but after she announced the election she decided that she had to get in on the act for some reason. Wildly speculating here, but could this be because she wanted the political mileage herself?

No it wasn't a preplanned strategy. Don't be stupid. That would suggest they had the foggiest clue and a plan. Nope, the war declaration was an opportunist damage limitation exercise, used to maximise political capital.

She has now even further alienated the EU. It seems difficult to conceive how any deal will be done. Instead it looks like the election is trying to set us up to crash out. Whether the ‘No deal is better than a bad deal’ happens to make the 3 page Tory Manifesto remains to be seen.

This would leave EU nationals and British national aboard in legal and social limbo.

There is also a feud building over the Brexit leaving bill, which is steadily climbing. We can not progress to the second stage of Brexit without resolving this. Again, this seems unlikely.

Thirdly, a settlement with Ireland is a top priority for the EU, and plans are being drawn up to make allowances for any potential United Ireland. This is a subject that is still to be talked about on any level really. May has been much more interested in the fate of Scotland and battling with Nicola Sturgeon.

That’s the thing. May is like the playground bully who goes around going “Do you wanna scrap ?, Do ya? DO YA?” and generally throws their weight around and most of the time gets their own way as a result. The trouble with the strategy is when the bigger kid comes along and thumps the bully, for being a cocky little shit and doesn’t like their kid brother getting picked on.

The trouble is that May is setting it up, to try and make it look like the poor little Britain has been picked on to her parents, so they go around accusing the big kid of all sorts rather than admitting their little darling is a nasty little shit.

It’s not going to end well is it? You can’t help but feel that at some point they’ll all end up in the Headmasters office and the WTO/UN/International Courts will rule against us for being a bunch of dickheads. No doubt May, will stick to character, hold a grudge and demand to leave them or say they have no authority over the UK.

That or we really will end up declaring war on Spain over Gibraltar. By accident of course. Probably to keep the ConKip party together and avoid a split.

Rule Britannia. Britannia rules. Erm, not a lot these days.

Badders123 Fri 05-May-17 22:42:23


LittleNellsDog Fri 05-May-17 22:42:47


HashiAsLarry Fri 05-May-17 22:56:25


Badders123 Fri 05-May-17 22:57:43

This is Me

squoosh Fri 05-May-17 22:58:43


unicornsIlovethem Fri 05-May-17 23:04:17

Have a good weekend, Red.

Peregrina Fri 05-May-17 23:05:37

Placemarking star times 12

DontBuyANewMumCashmere Fri 05-May-17 23:07:09

Had to check you weren't Claig.

prettybird Fri 05-May-17 23:15:45

Still think this is the best description I've seen of UK's negotiating strategy. As the tweet I saw it in said, akin to speaking English loudly to foreigners. grin (and sad and confused and angry and hmm)

just place marking wink

SummerLightning Fri 05-May-17 23:18:35

The school bully always ends up fat, overweight and living with mum at aged 40 as well....

What does that say for Britain's future?

WifeofDarth Fri 05-May-17 23:19:43


SummerLightning Fri 05-May-17 23:20:22

Fat and overweight? What am I on about? You know what I mean.

illegitimateMortificadospawn Fri 05-May-17 23:24:50

Top marks for the thread title too. star (My finger slipped there - you nearly got a pombear grin)

woman12345 Fri 05-May-17 23:26:59

Badders123 grin
Thanks everyone and RedToothBrush

BigChocFrenzy Fri 05-May-17 23:47:29

Thanks, red flowers

SwedishEdith Fri 05-May-17 23:57:17


BigChocFrenzy Sat 06-May-17 00:03:30

No trade deal unless expats retain all current rights

When Leavers keep trotting out the claim that the EU refuses May's offer about expats:

The famous dinner revealed why she wanted that v quick deal - to be sure that they had fewer rights than they have now.

T*he EU wants those people to “live their lives as if Brexit never happened,”* according to one EU official.

"For anyone moving to the U.K. before Brexit day,
^the EU wants to ensure full pension and social security rights and comparable tax advantages for as long as they live.^"

"They also should have the ability to gain permanent residency after five years of continuous stay. 
The EU also wants the deal to include the spouses and children of the citizens, too."
"Barnier ..... reiterated that the 27 remaining EU countries require
“iron-clad guarantees” of citizens’ rights *before*^ the negotiations on Britain leaving the bloc can move to a future trade accord^.^^"

"European Parliament President Antonio Tajani said earlier on Friday that lawmakers, who have a veto over the final agreement,
^wouldn’t back a deal if there are no guarantees for EU citizens living or having lived in the U.K.^"

“Without an agreement to maintain the same rights European citizens living in the U.K. enjoy today, the European Parliament will vote against the final text,”

Cailleach1 Sat 06-May-17 00:04:08

Thanks, Red. These threads are a respite.

Squoosh: The amoral fucks

That really captures the Zeitgeist.

prettybird Sat 06-May-17 00:44:58

Cailleach: if the change in the number of SNP seats from 425 to 431 is, as reported by the BBC, a loss of 7 seats, then they're applying different arithmetic to the arithmetic I learnt when I got an A for my O grade arithmetic winkconfused

And Hashi - I haven't seen the raw aggregated 1st round votes but based on the full STV votes (and some, like the result in Shettleston went to the 11th iteration before the 3rd and 4th candidates were selected), the results are much more positive than is being presented. The gap between the 1st and 2nd placed party is now c150 in contrast to 2012, when Labour was only 30 seats behind the SNP. Labour and Tories are now on about the same number of seats. The Greens have made advances too (11 to 19 iirc) (caveat: I'm quoting these figures from memory and don't want to leave the app to check and risk losing what I've posted)

What is worrying for Indy supporters is the way that the Labour vote seemed happy to jump to Conservative. Having said that, these are local elections and are supposed to be about local issues (although you would have been forgiven for thinking otherwise when reading the Union parties' literature). The real measure will be the GE.

What will be interesting from a political (and ethical and Brexit) perspective is how many of the NOC Councils are resolved with a Labour-Conservative shock Coalition to keep the SNP out.

woman12345 Sat 06-May-17 00:55:43

"T*he EU wants those people to “live their lives as if Brexit never happened,”* according to one EU official".
smile My wildest dream, and that Trump never was.

BigChocFrenzy Sat 06-May-17 00:57:32

The upsurge in blind nationalist fervour may after all be caused by a longing for the old Empire.

A 2014 YouGov poll - long before the ref stirred up patriotic passions - found that

34% of the population wished that Britain still had an empire hmm

"^British Euroscepticism has one of its major roots in EU membership being seen as an unsatisfying alternative to great power status and the empire that went with that.^"

A leaf through something as innocuous as the 1960s Children’s Britannica, or the 11-plus syllabus of the period, reveals that

^the ideas of Western superiority and the civilising mission, pioneered by Mill, were still being taught to the baby boomers.^"

"Theresa May and David Davis, are the right age to have unknowingly internalised this education."
< like so many others aged 60+ >

"Empire 2.0 and Brexiteers’ ‘swashbuckling’ vision of Britain will raise hackles around the world"
"In India, Mill, the brutality of the Raj and the policies based on assumptions of British superiority are well remembered and publicly reviled.

Policy makers would do well to remember that"

BigChocFrenzy Sat 06-May-17 00:59:47

"^change in the number of SNP seats from 425 to 431 is, as reported by the BBC, a loss of 7 seats,^"

and they criticised Dianne Abbott's maths ....

woman12345 Sat 06-May-17 01:06:15

and they criticised Dianne Abbott's maths ....

I'm sure she'd have had the same shite if she had been a rapey privately school caucasian. hmm

DD's fatal inability to give clear answers on NI, NHS in brexit committee were met with deafening silence, apart from on this thread.

BigChocFrenzy Sat 06-May-17 01:08:24

woman In most EU countries, certainly in Germany, it is regarded as unacceptable to make changes retrospectively that significantly affect people's lives, whether that be policy on taxes, housing, health insurance or anything else.

Because retrospective changes damage the human rights of people to feel secure and plan for the future, to make family commitments and lay down roots - without the state ripping up their lives.

That's why the EU is so determined on this
I hope their is a sensible trade deal, but NOT at the cost of sacrificing the human rights of expats in each others' countries

... and it is the expats in the UK most at danger, with May eager to slash rights to the bone for everyone, British, E27, non-EU.
Everyone except the wealthy

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