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Well, the chickens are coming home, aren't they?

(82 Posts)
Draylon Thu 04-May-17 13:37:05

...Apart from the news in the wider economy, I have a colleague who voted Leave as 'it will create more jobs for our kids'. His are 24, 22 and 16.

Without being too specific, his 22 year old left uni with a 2:1 in an engineering subject last June. And has been offered one interview since. Only one person on his course has a job in the field!. We have fallen out over Brexit in the past, so we 'avoid' it; however, I did enjoy innocently asking what on earth could be causing the drought of jobs in this sure-fire discipline? grin

My DH's French HQ'ed company shut their graduate scheme to new entrants last year, fearful as to whether they'd be able to see them through before they relocate back to Paris.

But what did my colleague expect? Yes, 10 years hence, Brexit may well be hailed a 'success' but that will have seen off the 'best years' of his DC's lives; and, speaking of 'success', what that will actually mean is, yes, the economy will be richer, but with the oncoming bonfire of workers and benefit recipients rights, that cash will be concentrated in the hands of an ever smaller group of families and companies.

We'll look back on these days of zero hour contracts and 400,000 children in poverty with nostalgia.

scaryteacher Thu 04-May-17 15:47:12

Yet you are happy for a generation to be written off in Greece and Spain who are remaining in the EU?

HM Forces are on the look out for Engineers, they always are, so jobs available there; indeed my dh could have gone back in post retirement as they were short of weapon engineers.

It depends surely, where and at what the young man is looking. Babcock are always recruiting ( another ex RN engineering friend has just landed a job in NZ), and if you trawl the on-line job ads via the IET website, there are openings there.

As to being offered only one interview - it depends on if he bothered to follow the application process; did he map his qualifications and experience against the essential and desirable job criteria? You don't know that Brexit has anything to do with him only having one interview - he could have been binned at the CV stage because he hadn't done what was asked in the application process.

PMI data was 55.8 and we are $1.29 against the dollar. How is that not OK?

missmoon Thu 04-May-17 15:51:26

"Yet you are happy for a generation to be written off in Greece and Spain who are remaining in the EU? "

How will Brexit help Greece or Spain? I've heard this argument before, but I can't see how it's related to Brexit at all.

newmumwithquestions Thu 04-May-17 15:51:28

So you're gloating and happy that there's a 22 year old graduate struggling to get a job?? You sound really nice.

squishysquirmy Thu 04-May-17 15:54:14

Yeah, these feckless young people should never moan about employment when they could just join the army. hmm
Reminds me of this:
www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/war/fat-balding-office-manager-believes-we-need-a-good-war-20170428126755

squishysquirmy Thu 04-May-17 15:57:11

Seriously though, I am quite surprised about the engineering graduate struggling to find a job, because I thought that most sectors are short of new graduates with good degrees. If that's true, then I am worried as it means things are getting worse far more quickly than I feared. (Unless he's looking for a job in energy in North East Scotland maybe?)

PattyPenguin Thu 04-May-17 16:06:24

It does depend what branch of engineering and what part of the country.

As a corollary to that, whether it is practical to move away if offered a job. Would the salary cover the outgoings on even shared accommodation?

It also depends on companies being willing to take graduates fresh from university. Far too many want experienced engineers, which new graduates aren't, by definition.

scaryteacher Thu 04-May-17 16:22:10

Squishy I said the Forces, of which there are three. Funny how the engineering opportunities inherent in joining the RN or the RAF get ignored in favour of sneering at the Army.

If you join the Forces in an engineering role, you get to work on bits of kit that civilians don't get to, unless you are involved in the build of a warship, a fighter jet; you are given help to obtain qualifications and helped to obtain your Chartered Status. They even pay for your degree or your Masters in many cases. You also get a good pension, subsidised accommodation (although that can be variable) and some salaries top £80k. You get a wide range of experience, moving appointments every two years. Your jobs could range from being a deputy weapon engineer on a submarine to being a military diplomat, or seconded to the EUMS, or being sent to Oman as Foreign Loan service for a couple of years. When you leave, you have a massive range of transferable skills which many civilian employers are interested in. Win, win.

scaryteacher Thu 04-May-17 16:25:10

Missmoon The Op is gloating about a new grad failing to get a job, which she blames on Brexit There are millions of similar age youngsters in Spain and Greece who are in exactly the same boat, and whose countries have chosen to remain. Their failure to get jobs is not down to Brexit so why therefore should the supposed lack of Engineering jobs in the UK be down to that?

Draylon Thu 04-May-17 16:29:09

Apart from a PT job with his GF's father, he's gained no experience in his degree qualification career choice because practically no one's hiring onto graduate programs, which, given that he has no experience, is what he's applying for. His engineering degree (M.Eng) traditionally gets employed into multinational companies, y'know, those who are exploring setting up their base out of the UK, post Brexit (like my DH's company is).

newmummy -"So you're gloating and happy that there's a 22 year old graduate struggling to get a job?? You sound really nice."

Well, how 'nice' was he when he carelessly wrote off my 16 and 18 year old's next 10 years? I'm deeply unhappy actually, but whether you consider my pointing out the irony of him and his son's position following a choice daddy made in June last year is 'gloating', it depends what sort of person you are.

I don't care if my opinion is 'not nice'. I think events have demonstrated that maybe we all need to think only of our own, seeing as we now know what 52% of the country actually feels about 'the common good', eh?

As for Greece and Spain, their young aren't screwed because of the EU, it's because they opportunistically sought to join a club they really weren't qualified to be in. Ironically, our Brexiting might cause the formation of the 2 or 3 speed Europe that should have been an option, but, heigh ho, you can't reform from the outside.

FTR, the lad concerned is in Hampshire. One of his course tutors from his RG uni helped him with the application and interview prep, but the lecturer said he alone had helped several other people from the same uni apply for that graduate position.

Make of that what you will. The positions just aren't out there.

squishysquirmy Thu 04-May-17 16:29:23

I wasn't "sneering at the army", wind your neck in.
I know a little about engineering careers, many of my friends from uni eventually went into the RAF, and for a short while I considered it for myself.
I would like to point out that however great a career in the forces may be for some people, it is not suitable for many young graduates, for a variety of reasons. Suggesting that "just join the forces" is a perfect solution to the issue of graduate unemployment is ridiculous, and easily parodied.

squishysquirmy Thu 04-May-17 16:31:26

^Not to mention that with the world not too stable at the moment, it would be wise to think very, very, carefully before signing up to some roles.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer Thu 04-May-17 16:38:07

Suggesting that "just join the forces" is a perfect solution to the issue of graduate unemployment is ridiculous, and easily parodied.

I agree

And i have just spent weeks trying to persuade ds1 that the Navy is a very good option for him

(And had coffee with three friends today all of whom have told their children the same smile)

Draylon Thu 04-May-17 16:38:32

scary -several of the DC at uni with this lad were from the EU, including Spain and Greece.

The reason the big engineering firms have erstwhile chosen to HQ their European operations in the UK, as opposed to Spain or Greece should be fairly bleedin' obvious:

English
Free access to the whole EU
The upholding of Property and Legal rights
Low levels of corruption and graft
The status of the British universities in turning out good graduates
A 'strong and stable' economy

As for Spain and Greece 'choosing to remain' within the EU, have they held a referendum? And if they did, I suspect they'd overwhelming vote to remain, don't you? Because they see the benefits in free trade and FOM. And maybe, unlike us, recognise that their issues are due to poor domestic governance.

Again, you can call it 'gloating' all you like. I like to see it as a small amount of vindication watching a Brexiteer, one who shouted me down, saying Brexit would bring jobs flooding into the UK for British kids- beginning to see the reality of what they've done, happening to their family, not just affecting 'other people'.

Draylon Thu 04-May-17 16:39:32

I certainly wouldn't be suggesting the armed forces to any DC of mine. The chances of getting killed are rather higher than they were back in the Cold War!

ThroughThickAndThin01 Thu 04-May-17 16:40:47

I'm sure he'd still vote the same way if there was a rerun.

PossumInAPearTree Thu 04-May-17 16:43:28

It's been happening long before brexit. My brother got a first in history a few years ago, spent a year job hunting with no success. Then worked for six months flipping burgers. Then went and did a Masters at uni.

A year after finishing his masters he works as an office junior. He could have left school at 16yo.

Draylon Thu 04-May-17 16:43:49

Who knows? He may possibly be like one of the Brexit Arms posters on here, who considers the 'job done', post Article50. And won't want to get mired down in the nasty old detail.

I suspect many Brexiteers will revert to type and never bother to vote again.

fakenamefornow Thu 04-May-17 16:44:38

Well, the chickens are coming home, aren't they

If only the pain could be limited to those who voted for this and wanted this though. I voted Remain and will be losing my job (that I love) because of Brexit.

TheCrowFromBelow Thu 04-May-17 16:45:24

I do not want the armed forces - any of the 3 - to be the only employment option open to my sons. I have family in the RAF, the Navy and the Army and I can wholeheartedly say it is not a career I want my DCs to follow.
I think we are in for a bleak decade.

Draylon Thu 04-May-17 16:46:25

What's been happening, possum? Engineering graduate schemes getting suspended? How is that related to a History degree?

One of the very reasons this lad chose his course almost 5 years ago was for the employability of graduates, at good starting salaries. He's quite canny and money oriented (I know the lad personally).

Draylon Thu 04-May-17 16:48:56

fake I agree, I wish the shitstorm could ideally be averted for all of us, or otherwise just be visited upon the perpetrators.

My DH, along with the fellow managers, has been told he is likely to have to relocate to Dublin, post Brexit, when he'll be 58. Or take redundancy (after 7 years' work, so diddly squat). Not a happy prospect.

Badders123 Thu 04-May-17 16:59:41

I agree completely Draylon.
My dc have dual nationality but what of those who don't?
terrifying.

missmoon Thu 04-May-17 17:05:29

"There are millions of similar age youngsters in Spain and Greece who are in exactly the same boat, and whose countries have chosen to remain. Their failure to get jobs is not down to Brexit so why therefore should the supposed lack of Engineering jobs in the UK be down to that?"

So you're saying it's completely irrelevant to issue at hand. Why bring it up at all then?

PossumInAPearTree Thu 04-May-17 17:08:32

All I meant was that graduate unemployment has been an issue long before brexit. Including in engineering. Dh works in civil engineering and I'm well aware of what the job market has been like in his field and it's not been good for for the last 5-10 years. He left one company as it was teetering on the edge five years ago, and his new company has been lurching from one crisis to another for at least two years. A friends ds has an engineering degree and has been unemployed and he graduated three years ago.

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