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Were there any LD supporters who voted Leave?

(329 Posts)
optionalrationale Wed 19-Apr-17 22:29:16

I am a "natural" Labour supporter and former party member. I supported Labour Leave in the EU Ref and will be voting Conservative for the first time in my life in the GE. I wondered if there were any LD Leavers. I know this might be rare but I wondered if there were any at all. Or is LD Leaver an impossible combination.

MakemineaGandT Wed 19-Apr-17 22:45:38

<tumbleweed>

Think you have your answer.

missmoon Wed 19-Apr-17 22:58:46

I think around 30% of Lib Dems voted Leave. I met quite a few while out canvassing a few months ago. Whether they still support Brexit is another question...

fakenamefornow Wed 19-Apr-17 23:01:59

It's very interesting isn't it. Brexit doesn't seem to follow any party lines and is by far the biggest (only) issue.

TJEckleburg Wed 19-Apr-17 23:09:53

The 30% figure is the number of people who voted lib dem in 2010 or 2015 who then voted leave, so not necessarily lib dem "supporters" or people who have any active involvement with the party. Lib Dems have, since the referendum, been winning council by-election's in predominantly leave areas as well as remain areas. Brexit is not our only policy. We are also very strong local campaigners

Amongst members/activists the figure of leave supporters is far smaller. There was a LIbDem leave stall at spring 2016 conference, but there was never anyone on it, and their promotional material only had 4 unknown people on it.

Peregrina Wed 19-Apr-17 23:14:47

I do know one Green who voted Leave. I am not sure why - I think he's like the Labour Lexiters.

optionalrationale Thu 20-Apr-17 05:07:51

Yesterday 23:01 fakenamefornow

"It's very interesting isn't it. Brexit doesn't seem to follow any party lines and is by far the biggest (only) issue."

Indeed. Being on the either side of of the EU debate certainly created some strange bedfellows. I had assumed that the LibDem supporters might be the most "ideologically united" when it comes to EU membership.

It is certainly going to a campaign unlike any other.
The Tories will write off Scotland (as they have for 50 years or more). But SNP dominance in Scotland guarantees Labour won't be able to form a majority in the UK. The Cons will portray Labour as ultra Loony Left or the party for the Islington types (urban, middle class, elitist MN types). Labour is haemorrhaging working class support and the Tories will scoop this up (now that UKIP seems irrelevant).

So I think it is mainly going to be a choice between
A) Give TM her own clear electoral mandate to lead the Brexit negotiations
B) Have Tim Farren clearly articulate what a "soft Brexit" would actually mean

While the simplicity of "Brexit means Brexit" BMB appeals to many. "Brexit means Remain" BMR is going to allow the Tories to paint the LDs as not respecting the "will of the people"

She us going to put the burden of having to explain exactly what BMR looks like on TF. If anyone asks the same of BMB, she'll say "You can't expect me to reveal my negotiating hand"

So basically I think the LDs and Timmy Farron are going to come under more scrutiny than they have in recent memory.

Hamiltoes Thu 20-Apr-17 06:04:09

The Tories will write off Scotland

I'm not entirely convinced they should. Contrary to what Nicola claims there are a lot of people in Scotland who voted leave who will be unsure who to turn to now that Labour are completely unelectable and LibDem are the Remain party.

I actually voted remain and was an SNP member, but like many of my colleagues are waking up to the fact that the SNP don't really do very much other than go against whatever westminster says. They've had 10 years now and devolved issues are as shit as they ever were.

Certainly amongst those I've spoken to they think the 2 child rule is quite fair, it's what working people have had to do forever... yet Nicola was in the news this week saying she'd abolish it. Shes so set on arguing with westminster and pushing for Remain and Independence she's alienated a lot of voters who are Center and believe in basic principles such as democracy.

I think the Tories will do ok in the upcoming council elections. I do think this GE will be very interesting in terms of Scotland and I'd be surprised if the country was a block of SNP like last time. Although with the voting system we have who knows.

annandale Thu 20-Apr-17 06:06:39

I agree with Hamiltoes, I think a Conservative recovery in Scotland is likely.

InfiniteSheldon Thu 20-Apr-17 07:18:20

I was a Lib dem voter, I voted Leave won't vote for them ever again.

Twooter Thu 20-Apr-17 07:25:40

I know a lot of Scottish tory remainers. I'm quite curious to know which way they're planning to vote as they all detest the SNP.

BrexshitMeansBrexshit Thu 20-Apr-17 07:43:55

While the simplicity of "Brexit means Brexit" BMB appeals to many.
Only to leave voters, I imagine. The rest of us can spot empty waffle and vacuous statements a mile off.

squishysquirmy Thu 20-Apr-17 08:22:25

Ruth Davidson has done quite a lot to win round voters in Scotland, but I don't think large conservative gains there are very likely.
This site has some good info:
www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html

Figmentofmyimagination Thu 20-Apr-17 09:36:17

I'd have thought those who can't make their mind up are more likely to stay at home than in previous elections. When you have no confidence in anybody, the obvious choice is likely to be 'none of the above'. I did this in the labour leadership election. Don't like corbyn, but at the time, none of his opponents looked capable of winning a general election. Probably a mistake on reflection, as yvette cooper could have taken on someone like May. Just shows how unpredictable politics is!

squishysquirmy Thu 20-Apr-17 10:27:01

You're probably right figment. Plus you would expect a fair amount of voter fatigue.

AccioMerlot Thu 20-Apr-17 10:39:27

The tories are going to fight on grounds of the country needing 'strong leadership' and i think that may attract your uncommitted voters, sticking with the status quo is more popular in ...interesting times.

Which is a bit of a bugger; they're going to take this as a green light to press on with all their austerity crap, nhs and education cuts, because hey, that's what people voted for.

Add in the huge amount Brexit is going to cost the country and our public services are totally fucked for the foreseeable.

Bolshybookworm Thu 20-Apr-17 10:55:09

Which is why I'm bemused that lexiters and "natural" labour voters would vote for them. They are destroying the welfare state whilst we all sit and watch and no-one seems to care. Reinforces to me that this election is purely about Brexit. Which is utterly depressing. We're giving the most right wing government we've seen in my lifetime a mandate to do whatever they want because of Brexit. This country will be an inward looking, poverty ridden shell by the time they're through. I've given up now, this is not my country anymore. I'm just going to hunker down, save as much money as I can before it all goes tits up and try and get my kids to leave as soon as they are able.

God I feel utterly despondent today.

Peregrina Thu 20-Apr-17 11:10:59

sticking with the status quo is more popular
But they didn't stick with the status quo in the Referendum. Although that was probably because they wanted more money for the NHS, less immigration, 'sovereignty' and two fingers to Cameron, in equal measure.

I'm just going to hunker down, save as much money as I can before it all goes tits up and try and get my kids to leave as soon as they are able.
I am going to do the same, and I hope that my kids leave and make a life elsewhere.

squishysquirmy Thu 20-Apr-17 11:50:05

I understand why wealthy, small c conservatives who want tax cuts and reduced public services would vote Tory.

I can understand why some on the Left voted for Brexit, even though I think it was the wrong choice.

What I find completely impossible to understand (and I have really, really, tried) is how a "Lexiteer" can bring themselves to vote for not just a Tory government, but the most right wing Tory government we have seen in decades.
Brexit is happening. A50 has been triggered and short of a miracle or thermonuclear war, the GE result will not stop it.
Why would you vote for more austerity, more cuts, and huge differences between rich areas and poor areas? Is everyone aware what is planned for council funding? (Hint: we're not "all in it together")
www.theguardian.com/society/2015/nov/25/local-government-councils-funding-gap-critical-budget-cuts-social-care-spending-review
www.npi.org.uk/blog/local-government/local-government-will-be-uncharted-water-2020/
Over 80% of funding will be generated locally across all council types – 94% in the case of shire counties. This is significant because the capacity to raise revenues via council tax and business rates is uneven and does not provide a general answer to the problem of variations in levels of local deprivation. Some areas will do well, others will not. Without an equalisation mechanism on the basis of where resources are needed, residents will lose out badly.

Why, if you voted for a left wing Brexit, would you hand over complete control of Brexit to the hard right fringes of the Tory party?

"Brexit means Brexit" is a soundbite. They want you to believe that It is a binary choice between Brexit/No Brexit. It is not. It is not even a binary choice between Hard/Soft Brexit.

It is so much more nuanced than that, there are so many competing priorities, but by voting Tory in June you are supporting the priorities of Jacob Rees Mogg, IDS, Gove, Johnson, Redwood, Villiers etc.

I would be amazed if the Conservatives don't win in June.
But maybe, just maybe, things could be close enough to give them a bit of a scare. Maybe, just maybe, the vote could send them a message and maybe they'd listen: That a large proportion of the British public - including many leavers- do not want a hard right Brexit. But in order for that to happen, leavers like optionalrationale need to vote for someone other than the Tories.
Please, please consider who you vote for very carefully, whether you are left, right, remain or leave.

Figmentofmyimagination Thu 20-Apr-17 14:00:50

The left brexiters I know would rather eat their own arm than vote conservative, and they would have no time at all for any supposedly left leaning 'pro-brexit' person who were to vote for Theresa may. There really cannot be many politically aware people who would do this. You would have to be absolutely blind to move from labour to conservative on this issue.

Mistigri Thu 20-Apr-17 16:31:02

Not only were there a small number of LDs who voted leave, there were also (according to post referendum polling) some kippers who voted remain.

I think there has always been a eurosceptic thread running through the LDs which isn't surprising for a party with its roots in small government liberalism. My father is an ex liberal councillor who has been a Eurosceptic for many years (since Euroscepticism was mainly about the euro rather than the EU) and is a soft (Efta/EEA) leaver.

Likewise there are kippers attracted to the racist bits of the kipper platform but who don't have a problem with white EU immigration and aren't particularly anti-EU. This is incidentally also the position of many Front National voters in France.

HPFA Thu 20-Apr-17 18:34:03

I met a lady on the doorstep who said she had voted LD and UKIP.

Our local LD councillor has an inexhaustible knowledge of local issues and is not seeing the position as a stepping stone. Perfectly possible for someone to vote for her locally and vote something else nationally.

optionalrationale Thu 20-Apr-17 21:01:43

Today 07:43 BrexshitMeansBrexshit

"While the simplicity of "Brexit means Brexit" BMB appeals to many.
Only to leave voters, I imagine. The rest of us can spot empty waffle and vacuous statements a mile off."

What would you suggest as an alternative? Brexit kinda sorta might mean a version of Brexit that will please neither Remainers nor Leavers

Yup. Rolls off the tongue and will certainly rally the electorate.

alltouchedout Thu 20-Apr-17 21:06:08

An alternative which actually tells us something would be nice.

optionalrationale Thu 20-Apr-17 21:13:59

Today 10:55 Bolshybookworm
"I'm bemused that lexiters and "natural" labour voters would vote for them."

Here are a handful of reasons
1) JC lacks leadership
2) He is unelectable
3) He has an extremely Loony left shadow chancellor
4) He does not have the confidence of his own parliamentary party
5) I have a growing respect for TM

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