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Fancy nursing? Better pass those A levels quickly! ...

(20 Posts)
Draylon Sat 18-Mar-17 17:32:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

twofingerstoEverything Sat 18-Mar-17 18:27:03

Applications to nursing degree courses down 27% this year because of withdrawal of bursaries.
This government doesn't do joined-up thinking, does it? NHS on its knees? Let's cut bursaries and deter foreign nurses!

I'm seriously worried about the NHS.

taytopotato Sat 18-Mar-17 19:22:38

They will be replaced by Nursing associates aka state enrolled nurses

Plus, the NHS has historically recruited nurses and doctors from abroad.

Draylon Sat 18-Mar-17 20:18:00

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Peregrina Sat 18-Mar-17 20:26:46

I notice that Hull are offering posts to Filipino nurses - once they have cleared the visa process. Meanwhile, nurses from nearby countries, who don't need visas are being made to feel unwelcome in the UK. Madness.

On the other hand, if the scheme does allow people who don't have A levels a way into nursing, via a foundation degree and a salary, it is not necessarily a bad thing.

Draylon Sat 18-Mar-17 21:03:50

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Peregrina Sat 18-Mar-17 23:30:30

Draylon, I said what I did because I have a relative who I believe could make a good nurse. She left school with few qualifications, but has developed since. Giving up a job to get A levels and then 3 years away doing a degree isn't really an option for her, in her circumstances - she lives a long way from any universities or teaching hospitals - but I think if there was an on the job apprenticeship scheme, properly funded and thought through, it could work for her. The key I think, is the properly funded and a clear career path.

The problem as I see it, is that this is just a way of doing things on the cheap. It's only relatively recently that we have got rid of Enrolled Nurses, and now we are turning the clock back. But hey, we are just the plebs, so we don't matter.

Draylon Sun 19-Mar-17 00:43:41

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Floralnomad Sun 19-Mar-17 01:06:27

Can I just point out out there are lots of nurses still working who do not have a degree but the old RGN qualification , pre nurses being trained in universities and that most of them are just as capable of assessing patients / managing wards / knowing what blood results mean etc ,as the nurses who have degrees . IMO too many nurses with degrees are not prepared to be 'bottom washers ' and that is an issue , because however much responsibility a nurse now has in a modern NHS , they still need to be able to do basic care for patients - the clue is in the name .

BBCHypocrits Sun 19-Mar-17 06:26:07


Peregrina Sun 19-Mar-17 08:06:19

I do partly agree with Floralnomad - I didn't say a six month tech course - I talked about a proper apprenticiship, so I was thinking more in terms of at least 3 years for the qualification like the old SRN/RGN, but probably more like 5 if done on a part time basis.

whatwouldrondo Sun 19-Mar-17 08:32:04

I know quite a few degree level qualified nurses now living in Australia. It is not because they were not prepared to wipe bottoms. It was because they felt that they could no longer care for their patients adequately and safely. As an example as a newly qualified nurse having the care of five critically ill babies was stressful but everyone mucked in when there was an emergency or procedure that needed more hands. However five years later being asked to care for ten critically ill babies with only the help of an unqualified assistant meant knowing that inevitably a baby would die as a result of not having enough knowledgable nurses available to cope with a crisis. In Australia the ratio is one nurse to each critically ill baby, regarded as a sacrosanct because of the infection control risk.......

Draylon Wed 22-Mar-17 20:48:25

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Peregrina Wed 22-Mar-17 22:18:32

I do have a degree (upgrade), more or less forced on me because Australia fell for the Degree Myth before the UK did.

I think it's a good question for a lot of professions to ask as to whether going down the degree route was necessarily the best one or whether a rigorous apprenticeship model would have worked better. It's not comparable but some large accountancy firms are now going back to taking on A level students and putting them through training contracts of a few years (5?).

The problem with the Govt plans is that they are trying to do it all on the cheap. Which is not acceptable.

Draylon Mon 27-Mar-17 21:22:23

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Peregrina Mon 27-Mar-17 21:59:23

You can bet your rear end it won't be 'rigorous'.
I can certainly agree with that. It's annoying that when the have finally got rid of the SEN qualification, they want to bring something worse in, instead.

(BTW the old apprenticeships used to be a at two levels - 'craft' apprenticeships and ones which were more degree equivalent.)

Draylon Mon 27-Mar-17 22:47:55

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Peregrina Tue 28-Mar-17 02:32:18

Which apprenticeships 'degree equivalent'? This is going back a long time, but BIL (now in his seventies), did an engineering apprenticeship which seemed to enjoy the same prestige, and not many years later new recruits in his field were graduates. A level maths or equivalent required - so definitely not a push over in terms of an entry qualification. (Unless I completely mis remember!)

Draylon Tue 28-Mar-17 19:53:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Peregrina Tue 28-Mar-17 21:00:17

BIL did get to GS. As far as I recall, in his field, his apprenticeship was considered just as good as a 'proper' degree. It depends what you mean by degree - solid experience of engineering work was much better than a degree in say Physics or Maths, because that lacked the practical element. I am not sure how many 'sandwich' degrees were available - they were definitely considered better than straight degrees. I don't think he has regretted not getting a degree. Alternatively my Grandfather, a civil engineer did begin to regret it towards the end of his career.

However, that was then, and basically we are agreed that the current silly games that the Government is playing is just not the way to go about staffing a health service.

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