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Westminster: Brexit is the hard right's weapon of mass distraction

(1000 Posts)
BigChocFrenzy Tue 07-Mar-17 07:21:43

The fervour and divisions over Brexit have suspended normal party politics.

The staggering incompetence & unsuitability of Corbyn as a leader, together with the resulting impotence of Labour has removed the normal checks & balances in UK politics.
There is a vaccum where the Official Opposition should be, so Theresa May is under pressure only from her right.

I fear Thereas May and the Tory rightwing are taking advantage of Brexit to complete the destruction of the post-WW2 social contract and the welfare state.

Meanwhile, the constraints of civilised discourse have been loosened and those with racist or social Darwinist views now feel free to spout their poison openly.

Putin is pouring petrol on all the fires and Arron Banks is lurking < sinister emoticons required >

Zoe Williams:
"Behind a smokescreen of bogus patriotism, ideologically driven cuts to the NHS and all our public services are unpicking the bonds of nationhood"

"We should be marching against the crisis in adult social care, the closure of care homes, the systematic exploitation of carers, the £4.6bn cut from social care budgets this decade.
We should be .... asking:

“What exactly is the plan, if we’ve decided we can no longer afford to care for the elderly and the disabled?
What do we do with them instead?”

"We should be marching against cuts in education funding"

"Every morning we wake up to someone on the radio explaining, despairingly, that you can’t fix the hospital bed crisis until social care is fixed, and you can’t fix that until council tax brings in more, and it can’t bring in more because wages are too low."

"But when everything breaks at the same time, that is not a coincidence: it is a plan.

As surely as Margaret Thatcher had an economic plan on employment, rights, industry and wages,
this century’s Conservatives have a plan on public services, which is to smash them beyond all recognition."

Badders123 Tue 07-Mar-17 07:30:17

Thanks bigchoc

BigChocFrenzy Tue 07-Mar-17 07:31:03

Welcome everyone, whatever your views smile
These are the Westminster threads where we respect facts.. even experts shock

Mistigri Tue 07-Mar-17 07:31:07

Good stuff bigchoc.

Is anyone in contact with RTB off Mumsnet? Hope she is OK.

Kaija Tue 07-Mar-17 07:34:25

Thanks bigchoc

Motheroffourdragons Tue 07-Mar-17 07:35:58

Thank you, BigChoc. Hopefully we can return to sensible discussion.

HashiAsLarry Tue 07-Mar-17 07:37:12

Thanks bigchoc

rtb is taking a well deserved break IRL misti

Motheroffourdragons Tue 07-Mar-17 07:38:01

I sense a further rise in nationalist aims with talk of Irish indyref now too.

Motheroffourdragons Tue 07-Mar-17 07:39:05

I hope rtb is ok, too.

HashiAsLarry Tue 07-Mar-17 07:41:42

Sadly I agree mother. Looking forward to that no end sad

Motheroffourdragons Tue 07-Mar-17 07:45:42

I wonder if that has been the aim all along. To get out of the EU and rid England and possibly Wales if they toe the line of the pesky Scots and Irish.

CarelessWispas Tue 07-Mar-17 07:45:55

wine BigChoc thanks for picking up the gauntlet

whatwouldrondo Tue 07-Mar-17 07:50:31

Thank you Bigchoc for stepping into the fray. I hope Red is enjoying the break.

MirabelleTree Tue 07-Mar-17 07:56:25

Thanks Bigchoc. I don't really post but find these threads very helpful. To follow on from the discussion at the end of the last thread I think MN ranks highly on Google and quickly then hangs around for ages for everyone to read eg, Centre Parcs and BS. I think that's the reason it was infiltrated with paid Internet Shills before the Brexit Referendum and the repeat is happening now as the triggering of A50 looming. Hence why you're all being reframed as. "Unpatriotic ". "Activists ".

We saw before the Referendum they just keep going so they are deflecting from proper discussion. The only way to deal in my opinion is to cut off their oxygen and completely ignore. The recent infiltration does point to some worried people behind the scenes which is interesting.

Eeeeeowwwfftz Tue 07-Mar-17 08:02:28

Yeah let's do that. When a new poster appears who trots out one of the bingo phrases, just don't respond. Thanks bigchoc for the new thread. I can never resist a chance to shit on my own doorstep.

BigChocFrenzy Tue 07-Mar-17 08:04:23

I suppose if you are used to celebratory flagwaving, then threads where discussion is fact-based may look like an organised group of activists
< howls at the thought of someone trying to organise our disparate bunch grin >

HashiAsLarry Tue 07-Mar-17 08:08:35

What's wrong with activists. Some of the greatest freedoms we have now were won by activists.

BigChocFrenzy Tue 07-Mar-17 08:10:49

Theresa May is reportedly genuinely determined to prevent countries leaving the UK
However, I have read some coldly dispassionate Tories saying that getting rid of Scotland would improve their chances in future GEs.

It's not so much that Scotland "swings" a English Tory vote to a Labour UK: it is that Scotland produces a block of 59 MPs which oppose Tory policies.
Without them, Tories have a much lower hurdle to win power.

BigChocFrenzy Tue 07-Mar-17 08:11:56

OK, 58 + 1 Tory

whatwouldrondo Tue 07-Mar-17 08:17:19

I will admit to activism, however the ins and outs of our Council Leaders attempts to hijack our community for the interests of his more rich and powerful friends in the manner of a feudal Lord, and having to get to grips with all the bureaucracy of school place forecasting, planning frameworks etc. would probably be far more boring effective at drowning out debate than any troll grin

However it has thrown up this which is quite interesting, and I posted on the other thread which highlights the effect of the coming funding cuts in your local schools

prettybird Tue 07-Mar-17 08:21:09

Thank you for the new Westminstenders thread.

The loss of Scotland might make the threshold that the Conservatives need for power slightly lower on paper, but in practice, it has always (bar 2 minority/coalition governments) been the case that Middle England decides the colour of the Government. At least the Conservatives have one Tory MP (albeit one with - majority of less than 1,000). Thatcher had none and still had a significant majority. shock

BigChocFrenzy Tue 07-Mar-17 08:22:49

It would be very interesting when we get a Catholic majority in NI.
I wonder if the wish of some Catholics to remain part of the UK is based more on financial concerns that national aspirations ?

It's difficult to understand why those Catholics would continue to want to live under a DUP that belongs to the bad old days of religious extremism and in-your-face marches gloating over past bloody victories.

If the EU were prepared to foot the bill for NI - and remember that EU money transformed the RoI after decades of great poverty before joining - then a united Ireland would be economically feasible.

Ni has the great advantage over Scotland that they would be joining an existing EU country, so no need to negotiate the basics of rejoining the EU.

BigChocFrenzy Tue 07-Mar-17 08:24:19

than national aspirations

BigChocFrenzy Tue 07-Mar-17 08:26:25

ooh, just had an idea - maybe Scotland could apply to rejoin the EU as part of a new Ireland-Scotland celtic country ....

whatwouldrondo Tue 07-Mar-17 08:26:36

I just took a look at some Gramnar School areas. I am not sure if this is replicated across the country but the community schools that are closest to Grammar Schools in areas where they are ordinary Grammar Schools ( as opposed to superselectives that cream off such a small proportion of pupils that they do not have an impact on the ability range in surrounding schools) are facing much larger cuts, as in double in some cases, than their neigbouring Grammar Schools........

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